They Shall Know Fear: GT Army: Necrons or Dark Eldar?

Friday, June 3, 2011

GT Army: Necrons or Dark Eldar?

Howdy howdy dedicated readers...

With a Grand Tournament next weekend, I have decide whether I'm bringing Necrons or Dark Eldar. Its complicated, so I'll speak my mind, conceited that it may sound or not.

Factor One: Hassle
If I bring Dark Eldar, I have to bring two sets of venoms. Mine, and a "counts as" vyper set, which may or may not include any of the actual venoms if the store 2.5 hours away from me gets any in this weekend, and if I have time to put them together. They'd still be unpainted, and sit in the second array of vehicles which my opponents would have to choose which to face. Every round, my opponent either chooses my 3rd Ed. Raider venoms that are painted and converted, or the non-WYSIWYG vypers/potential venoms that aren't painted.

Factor Two: Pride
Today I discovered that I fell from #7 to #116 or something on RankingsHQ. Most of the events I've been to (or all of them) in the last year don't report the results. I submitted the Alamo GT results today, along with the Atlanta Circuit Finale results from last November (the only two things I had results for)...winning the Railhead Rumble or placing well is important to regaining my ranking. Maybe its foolish, but I take pride in climbing that chart. My event participation this year is driven mostly by attending events that will reflect well if I win on my standings.

Factor Three: Falling for my own Hype?
I started Necrons *because* they suck. Because I know how badly I can massacre them with any army I play. Because secretly, I want people who lose to my Necrons...my CLOSE COMBAT Necrons...to think to themselves, "Wow..do I suck that badly?" I've been preaching the awesomeness of them, but upon self-reflection, I'm not so sure. I picked up the previous oldest book in 40k (Dark Eldar) and rampaged around the country with an outdated codex where half the stuff didn't work, and I had to call every TO to get rulings on wargear (Nightmare Doll, Horrorfex). I took them because virtually NO ONE played them competitively, I like being unique, and they deserved a better showing. All reasons why I play Necrons now. Except...I'm not sure that I convinced anyone of how awesome my Dark Eldar were. Perhaps I just reaffirmed that I'm a good general.

Is taking Necrons to a GT...even if I win...going to make any meaningful statement? They're due for a new codex in mere months, a resurgence of Necron players now is both improbable and probably meaningless with a new book due so soon. I had almost a year with my Dark Eldar...this is potentially only one of two major events I can take my Necrons to before the new book comes out. Does winning with Necrons say anything other than "Dashofpepper is a good general?"

Factor Four: More on Hype
When I first picked them up, I expected to lose every game because of how I deal with Necrons when I'm across the table from them. Now, I have confidence because of my success. Is it unrealistic to think I can win a GT with them? And my previous question...is it even meaningful if I do? I don't think I have to convince anyone at this point that I'm a competent player.

And that's my dilemma. I want to take Necrons. I'm afraid of losing if I do. I need to boost my rankings, which my Dark Eldar can probably do. I'm not sure if my reasons for wanting to bring Necrons are good, or even meaningful.

I could use some advice. If it *is* just my ego wanting to bring Necrons, then I shouldn't bring them. I don't need to win a GT with Necrons for people to respect my ability. Hell, after the battle reports, half the people are going to say that my opponents had crappy lists anyway.

Anyway, looking forward to some thoughtful feedback.

Comments (22)

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newtoncain · 721 weeks ago

If you want to waac - then bring the DE list, it has a better chance of success.

If you want to waac and have a difficult challange that will make a statment if you win it all- then bring the crons. This is the glory hound option, big risk = big reward. But if you don't win then you get the what if syndrom.

Either way your going to face off vs. Hulk in the later rounds and he will just edge you out this time around.

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Atreides · 721 weeks ago

interesting questions and points. in all honesty, the battle reports you have posted so far have been against extremely sub-standard lists and your opponents have made some pretty basic errors. this is not taking anything away from you because you have made all the correct choices and played the army very well. however, if you attend a large GT you will inevitably come up against some vastly superior lists and much more competent generals. when this happens i think you army will suffer badly (not i said your army, not you).

on a separate note, your crusade (for want of a better word) to champion the Necrons is, as you said, misplaced. I think you would actually do more good if you started playing and winning with the new DE! there are many, many people who simply don't believe that they can stand up to many of the newer imperial codexes and i would like to see that balance redressed with some GT results.

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Lunchmoney · 721 weeks ago

Agreed with above. For all of the excitement surrounding the new DE codex, most still don't believe that it can hold a candle to the tuned imperial lists. Since the current iteration of the codex is new, DE players are stuck with it for quite a while. it might do them more good for you to climb the rankings again as a DE general.

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Pride · 721 weeks ago

If you win a GT with either of those armies, you will shake up people's perception of 40k.

But it really is just personal choice. The real question is, what do you think you have a greater chance of winning with? The answer is the army you should run.

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MrDrumMachine · 721 weeks ago

Pshaw, you want a real challenge then pick up tyranids and win a GT with them lol. But seriously if you expect to see any real competition then I think your necrons are going to struggle in ways that your DE are going to walk through and really proving yourself as a good general isn't necessary with the battle reports that you regularly post. However, I think you should bring your necrons to this next GT and at least show people how far you can go with them considering you've been talking about bringing them to major GTs like this whole year. Even if you don't take them to the NOVA I know I would be disappointed if you didn't bring them to at least one GT.

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agentfoo 12p · 721 weeks ago

I say you take the DE and tear some asses up, but it's really up to you.

Why are you going? Do you want to show that unexpected armies deserve respect? Why? Do you want to improve your standing? Why?

Screw it, flip a coin and go with it!

2 replies · active 721 weeks ago

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Dashofpepper 57p · 721 weeks ago

I'm going because I like participating in organized 40k, its where I'm mostly likely to get a good challenge, and to improve my standings.

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agentfoo 12p · 721 weeks ago

I wasn't really clear: basically, I was suggesting that you've basically got those two competing factors, Standing vs. Unexpected Armies, and you should just put them against each other and decide what's more important.

If it's your standing, then go DE. If you want to shock people, do the Necron thang.

Or, just flip a coin (or roll a die) and let fate decide. ;)

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Elias Macale · 721 weeks ago

I think it'll be a pretty moot statement if you win with the 'crons now. The book is just around the corner, and with Mat Ward's name on the rules, I'm sure they'll find some way to compete. I think Dark Eldar need it more than anything. People need to see the potential of the new book. If you can manage that while running a more varied list than what you had at Alamo, so much the better. I'd like to see your Wyche army in the Battle Reports, for example.

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Hulksmash · 721 weeks ago

I'm on board with either. I'm personally 50/50 on whether I'm taking Bugs or bringing my Wolves out of retirement.....might just flip a coin tonight since I've got stuff to get painted if it's my Bugs :)

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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newtoncain · 721 weeks ago

Go 4 cheese wolves and play bugs/knights when you get back into town.

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Foxfire · 721 weeks ago

Haven't been to dakkadakka or 40KO in ages (after a few years the threads just...all look the same), but I recently stumbled across some of these tournament discussions and in light of all this, I think DE are your best bet. By the sounds of it, there are still DE players who you could encourage by taking the win, and I'm not sure that's true for Necrons anymore.

Most Necron players seem to have gone into competitive hibernation until they get a newer book, and it doesn't seem like there will be enough time to get them back out of that before a new codex comes along and changes the rules. At best you'd be remembered as the guy who did what no one else could, but people will still be more interested in the new releases than they will be in the exploits of the last few months of the Necron dark age.

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Anon · 721 weeks ago

I don't think you'll get the satisfaction you want by winning with Necrons. While you hype them up as the worst codex and their book on the WHOLE is bad, there are certainly good combinations. You seem to have found that good combination. 3 AV 14 tanks that are resistant to melta and lances and many other tricks are certainly excellent in the current light AV focused meta. While it's only 9 wraiths, they also have a 3+ invuln, and 2 4+ saves, so they are effectively a LOT beefier than 9 models would suggest. Let's not forget their huge threat range.

My point here is that while Necrons suck, your current Necron army does not. The book might be boring, the build might be boring, it may be somewhat difficult to play and be relatively unforgiving, but it is not a bad army, it's just from a bad book (where you took many of the good choices). There was a guy on the east coast that won a GT in 7th edition with GOBLINS. Pure goblins. That army literally has no advantages and **does not have the solution for a lot of things***. By contrast, you're taking an army that clearly has units with strong abilities (monoliths, deceiver, wraiths that can go super far in 1 turn and are hard to kill unless you make a mistake). Does it have weaknesses? Of course, but it's nowhere near as weak as the Goblin army. If you told you me won a GT with that army, I wouldn't really be surprised, because most people don't have the tools to stop AV14 that isn't melta / lance. I can see it happening. Winning a GT with Goblins is damn right impressive and no one can contest it took skill. No one. I think that's what you're looking for. So find a 40K army build that is equivalent to Goblins.

I guess the bottom line is this: If you want to impress people with winning with a bad army, choose an army whose suck is not open to interpretation (note ARMY, not BOOK). If you win with all tactical marines, foot rush khorne, etc. etc. I'm sure more people would be impressed. Ask yourself: is the army I'm playing equal to Goblins? Basically, I'd stick to the Dark Eldar, since Necrons won't give you what you want. The most impressive thing, in my mind, is to keep winning with the same army CONSISTENTLY. No one can call it a fluke and shame on everyone else for not being able to stop you.

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Pride · 721 weeks ago

Hulk on the other hand, is morally obligated to take the Bugs. You both have to place really well with underdog codices, its a mission you accept by playing them!

1 reply · active 721 weeks ago

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Hulksmash 54p · 721 weeks ago

I'm not obligated to play anything! But Bugs are on the table :)

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The Grog · 721 weeks ago

I'd like to see the Necrons play against strong lists at a strong GT. But that's because I play them.

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Lyracian 59p · 721 weeks ago

Make a statement. Win with Necrons. Prove you are a good general not not just beating up all your friends :o)

Show people you do not need a super-duper 5th book. Just like foot Eldar won at the Oz tournament the other week.

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Calypso2ts · 721 weeks ago

As good a general as you are Dash, Necrons are susceptible to just straight losing to a bad matchup or having someone play keep away long enough to work a draw. If the Eldar player in the last battle report wanted to draw you out, he probably could have. At a big tournament to have a chance at winning, you need an army that is not easily forced into draws. Dark Eldar and Orks (your two most successful armies) are the kind of armies that table and decimate opponents. I am not sure that is the case with Necrons...

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Dashofpepper 57p · 721 weeks ago

I hadn't thought of that....I'd be disappointed if someone went to a GT looking to play a game for an intentional draw.

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inquisitor_dunn 51p · 721 weeks ago

I would go with the DE. Winning with them would still be pretty huge. Have the DE won a major GT yet?

I just think tougher opponents will not let the Necrons win. Don't let yourself get sucked into the hype.

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Dashofpepper 57p · 721 weeks ago

I appreciate all the comments....I've been reading them.

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Dayve220 · 721 weeks ago

You should take the crons, at least to one GT, once you get your official venoms and have beaten face with crons a little then you can switch to DE and beat face more easily. Secure in the knowledge that you'll more easily regain some ranks.

If you go into a GT worrying about placing well, it might not turn out so well as you may end up over-thinking something and making a mistake. Which is something your DE (with all their redundancy) could handle, the crons... might be a different story.

So go into a GT with crons, and go with them purely for face beating. Play to win, play to challenge your list. Worry about rankings later, I'm sure you have enough GT's planned that one risky cron excursion wouldn't dent your chances.

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Friday, June 3, 2011

GT Army: Necrons or Dark Eldar?

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