Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Daemons Thoughts – After Playing Some Games

Last weekend we had a tournament at 2,200 points that I participated in. It was one force org only but otherwise followed all the rules for 6th. I’d been playing my walking GK’s pretty darn hard lately and since there wasn’t a painting requirement I said to hell with it and brought out my Daemons. If you haven’t been following my blog for long I have a bit of a love/hate thing with Daemons. I love them because they are just plain fun to play 90% of the time. And I hate them because that 10% is normally so bad the army goes back in the box for a few months J

Anyway I’d finally taken the plunge and started a plastic army of the regular daemon models. This included several units of screamers, flamers, and chariots which all got new or revamped rules recently. Basically they added another level to Daemons and provided plastic models I could get into so boom, back to daemons!

Back to the tournament since it matters to what comes later in this. So I brought my daemons and just some stuff I wanted to try in 6th since I hadn’t played a game with daemons or against them yet. One thing I avoided was FMC’s since there is no firm ruling on the grounded thing I’m not about to show up and have built a list including something I thought would work one way and be told it works another. Anyway I brought this:

3xTzeentch Herald on Disc
1xSlaanesh Herald on steed w/musk
3x7 Flamers
2x5 Horrors w/Bolt
2x8 Screamers
8 Mounted Daemonettes
3x3 Seeker Chariots

And allied in more for me getting a feel for the unit for a different army:

Primaris Psyker
3xInfantry Squads w/Autocannon, Plasmagun, Power Axe

So the Tzeentch Herald’s went with the flamers for wound allocation and the Slaanesh herald joined the mounted daemonettes for some h-n-r fun.

Overall it was a pretty good time. I wound up going 2-1 and pulling down best sport which is always nice when your two wins are just horribly lopsided but let’s get down to my thoughts.

Disclaimer: Bear in mind this isn’t the only way to play and hell, I might not even be close to right but it’s how I’m feeling right now.

On Daemons in General:

In general I think Daemons got a big boost. Granted I think most of the old army list styles like bolt-n-beast (oh silly Brent, thanks for the shout out on BOLS J) and fatecrusher are done but I think we got a ton more options. Brent goes into it a bit on his article here on BOLS:

So the game I lost was partially due to mistakes of having not played this style of daemon army before. Partially due to my opponent being one of our better local players, and partially due to the table being nearly 25% impassable terrain. Something I learned but hadn’t processed until now was the impassable itself isn’t the issue as I’ve found the reduced chance of death is pretty nice. No it’s the fact that impassable terrain limits your ability to deploy as a cohesive force and allows you to be chopped up in pieces. And daemons really need to be able to deploy as a cohesive force.

With shooting being so much more prevalent bigger squads are going to be needed (here Brent and I agree J). I also think that Horrors are going to be a primary unit for us to use. It’s a unit that is moderately resilient but also has the ability to contribute to the game outside of CC, something none of the other troop choices really do.

Also I think flamers are going to be much, much more used. I know that after this weekend I fully intend to rock 3 squads of these at all times. Which when combined with the Horrors means a significant portion of your list can actually shoot now.  This kinda brings me to my next point:

Creating lists to split drops nearly down the middle now is not a good thing. This is just personal opinion so far but I think it’s where we’re headed. You need two waves, built separately, each with a strength should they be the first to go down on the table. This will probably make more sense after the unit thoughts so we’ll jump to them.

Seeker Chariots:

New kids on the block. These bad boys are 40pts of big based fun and because of them I need a bigger display board....Regardless of that I think they are an amazing addition to the daemon book. Some people won’t agree. They are squadrons of armor 11 models with only 2 hull points and they’re open topped. All true, they also have enormous bases which creates a massive foot print J

However what they do provide, for a mere 120pts for 3 of them, is a genuine threat. These things, if not killed, produce insane numbers of attacks and have a large threat radius. They’re hammer of wrath makes them dangerous to vehicles and troops alike. The ability to flat-out 12” off the deepstrike (with a 16% chance to immobilize) means you can redeploy them to ensure they are a threat on the following turn. Overall they are a solid choice but not one I wouldn’t take multiples of. I think if you take a single squadron you’re gonna be disappointed in the results. The value of these units is exponentially better the more you take.


I like them. I think they do an admirable job and make a great stand-in for fiends. This is another unit that can redeploy after landing (up to 24”) and even gets to attack on the turn it does the redeployment (if a unit is close enough to fly over). These units are a terror to mech and marine players and absolutely eat vehicles and basic marine squads. Though I found out that disordered charges might not be the best thing even if they did eventually come out on top. Against an opponent that is familiar with the rules these models should have an extremely high threat profile.


Oh dear lord…..I read the rules and knew they’d gotten better. I knew they’d be worth taking. But holy mother of whatever deity sounds right to you are these fellas just nasty. I recommend big squads personally and always led by a herald. If you have 5 extra points add a sergeant model too. Why? Wound allocation is huge with these guys. 2 wounds and wound allocation means distributing them properly is a big deal to keeping the unit viable longer. This is a unit that pretty much can’t be charged by anything without a 3+ invul or 10+ models. It’s jump infantry with an 18” 3-shot st4 weapon that’s ap4 and it has a flamer of doom. Warpfire allows you to deploy more conservatively and lay on wounds and then be able on the next turn to really lay on the hurt with the templates. They strip vehicles of hull points like they are going out of style which solves our Landraider issue.

Overall I think this is the new fiend. 23pts for a jumping 4+ to wound, no armor save flame template with 2 wounds is ridiculously good and slots in well.


Still good but bigger units are probably going to be needed now.

Mounted Daemonettes:

Gonna need a bigger squad. Overwatch and shooting means this unit is a go big or go home type unit. Meaning 15+ and then the herald becomes required to maintaint their mobility. Honestly not feeling these over a slightly lower number of screamers at this point. Their footprint is just as large as screamers, if not more so, and they can’t redeploy after the drop. Oh well, wanted to give them a go.

So back to the building a list with two separate components that both have a purpose and no more even splitting of units down the middle. Now I know I wasn’t the only fella who tried to mitigate the random by building a list that basically split down the middle so my first wave roll didn’t matter but I think I was doing it wrong even back then. More so now.

As you can see from the rest of the article I’m a big fan of some of the new units. The list I’m currently toying with is going to run around 11-12 units at 1850-2k and is going to look something like:

3xHerald of Tzeentch on Disc
3x7 Flamers
3x9 Horrors
3x6 Screamers (or 2x9)
3x3 Chariots

How does this apply to my new thoughts on my daemons. I’ve basically got a shooting and cc wave. Both have extreme threats. In the cast of the shooting wave the flamers are scary as hell but even an entire armies shooting (which shouldn’t happen) shouldn’t be able to drop them which keeps the pain off the troops and gives my assault wave time to land and deploy properly. The CC wave gives two extreme threats, both of which are resistant, and require dedication of a significant portion of an army to eliminate and generally leaving the other intact to start it’s rampage on turn 2.

6th has changed a lot of things. But I think for daemons it’s for the better. After Nova I’ll be doing a lot more playing with my daemons but I figured I’d share this before I head off for one of my favorite events of the year J