Wednesday, September 14, 2011

The Draw of Xenos

Hey folks!

For those of you who read Black Library books, when is the last time you got to the end, and the Xenos won? Never you say? That’s what I thought. And I don’t mean pyrrhic victories or temporary advantages over the forces of the Imperium, I mean a full-on, all the humies are dead, we claim this world, the end. Ghazghkull may have had his way with Armageddon, but he still got driven off the planet by Yarrick. The Necrons in “Fall of Damnos” are virtually limitless, and Necron In-fighting causes them from winning. Where’s the novel written from the perspective of a Tyranid hive ship? Or the novella? One that contains something of the unstoppable force they’re floating across the galaxy with? Humanity doesn’t stand a chance in staying the dominant race in the galaxy, yet every book is an Imperium victory.

My first army was Tau – one I chose before I knew how the game worked, and based solely on how I like to play video games (archer/ranger/hunter/etc). My knowledge of the game has changed much since then, and while I no longer play Tau, I’ve firmly entrenched myself in Xeno culture of one kind or another.

Space Marines are supposed to be outnumbered, outgunned, in depleted strength from continuous warfare on every front while the borders of humanity are slowly being encroached upon from every front. Where is this actually happening? They prevail every time in fluff. There are more Space Marine players than probably every other codex put together. I don’t care if you have Necrons on a shelf, if you’re playing Grey Knights, you’re a Space Marine player. And on the tabletop itself, Space Marines are *not* beset on all sides by hordes of aliens. For one thing, there aren’t enough Xeno players out there to go around, so more often than not Space Marines fight Space Marines. For another, short of Ork foot-slogging armies, Space Marines aren’t outnumbered in the armies people bring to the table. I fall into the category of people who think that Space Marines should be double and triple the cost that they are now, with higher stats to boost. That will never happen – it wouldn’t sell as many models.

But that’s the crux of my problem. The 41st Millenium is supposed to be grimdark. Humanity struggles for survival in obscene conditions while ravening Xenos press on every front. I think both the Black Library and GW are failing to meet expectations on that front. Give us novels of Ork victories! A book series of the Tyranids zerging through the core of the galaxy, eating worlds. Explore the Necron re-awakening, and fill in the backstory on the Void Dragon. And for the love of Gork and Mork, every other new codex does not need to be Space Marines. Make the Space Marine player feel alone in a sea of aliens – both as a player and on the tabletop.

The word “bandwagoner” gets tossed around a lot for folks who start playing the latest codex. I consider all space marine players to be bandwagoners. I hold all of them in the same regard that I do for the legion of MMO players who all have names like, “Drizzt, Drizzzt, Drizzt24, Drizzit, Druzzt, etc.” Pathetic.

You want to challenge yourself? Put down your flavor of Space Marines and pick up a Xeno army. I’m not talking about bandwagoning onto the new Necrons coming out either. When I go to a GT, and 11/14 of my games are against Space Marines….it’s too much. I wander the tables looking for armies that aren’t pathetic FOTM replicas of each other. Don’t worry about how overpowered Grey Knights are and how you need to play them because they’re uberpowerful. I’d wager than most people who jump onto a codex that just came out because it’s the latest, greatest, and broken aren’t good enough to use the tools in the codex to win against the really good players anyway. So you might as well join the ranks of Xenos. Be different! Be the underdog. Who doesn’t root for the underdog in a movie? Who doesn’t want the little guy to win?

I’ve got news for you – Space Marines are *NOT* the underdog. Pick up Xenos and help making Space Marines the underdog again!

Thanks for reading, and click some ads! Pennies for Hulksmash. J

Comments (51)

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My only comment on this is many older players (2nd edition and earlier) may have chosen Space Marines when they were one of the weaker armies. 4 of 5 players weren't playing Space Marines back in those days.

Those were good times.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
I play three armies, Tyranids, Blood angles, and Tau.
Tyranids were my first army, and they are my fun army, but ...Codex
Blood angles are the ones I take to hard tournaments, ya, I like having a chance to win.
Tau are my painting army. I'm working on them and learning new techniques. Plus they are fun and will someday become new shiny and I'll be way ahead of the bandwagon.
Yeah, I have a counts as Blood Angels army in the works, but I always go back to my Chaos Daemons and Eldar. Totally dig the article.
newtoncain's avatar

newtoncain · 706 weeks ago

3 cheers, too bad my Nid army is on ebay to pay 4 the morgage.
Sorrowshard's avatar

Sorrowshard · 706 weeks ago

The crowd goes wild *applause and screaming* * underwear is thrown*

I'm sick to death of marine spam too, don't hate tha playas hate the maker.

if GW actually ACTUALLY supported decent xenos ranges with good model ranges and rules that have parity with the latest Matt ward spawned marheen rape-festival you would see a broader spectrum of players.

I'm willing to bet at least two thirds of the people on the gigantic unstoppable tumor that is the GK bandwagon are there because it's ultimately OP, they will no doubt jump army as soon as tw@ Ward does his usual and shits out his next dex to one-up his last b0rk3n abortion of a book.

DE hemorrhaged players a while after release because it's an 'expert' army , it's almost like some of the fail and pricings in the DE book are to appease a potential mareenh player backlash, how else do you explain the extreme shit fest that is the Arcane wargear which is obviously there to sorta cover the psychic deficit but just flat fails.

I would argue that 'the lance curse' must surely be something a bright chap like Kelly would have been aware of , I'm guessing his hands were tied or perhaps lances may see a boost in 6th , but ultimately I think DE's weak AT is what is responsible for making them essentially a 'middle' army that can do well 'in the right hands' GK vehicles are a kick in the balls in all honesty and psycannons an even bigger one and wtf is with I6 str5 power weps for next to nothing ?

I'll stop now but there is plenty more rant where that came from .

Thanks for a highly relevant and current posting.
MY current belief is that the overabundance of marines pushed out by GW was meant to coincide with the Space Marine vidja game that just came out. Now Jimmy, hot off the high of his Ultramarine laying waste to a ga-kajillion Orks will be able to go to the slightly grimy, dark FLGS and have a conucopia of options to choose from to recreate his game exploits. Who the hell would want to play Orks? All they do is die by the buckets. SPESS MUHREENS!!
sn0zcumb3r's avatar

sn0zcumb3r · 706 weeks ago

Amen to that...
Fear the alien...
My last 3 opponents at a local rtt were , lash chaos, ork horde, and 20 man khorne berserker unit army. 25% were Imperial marines, 25% chaos marines, and 50% xenos. I see more chaos marine armies in the future once the Legions book comes out. Xenos really need Tau and Necron books to be done as I can see those being popular chioces.
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spaguatyrine · 706 weeks ago

I have thought about dark eldar..

If I win the semi's I will a dark eldar army! How bout them cookies for ya?
8 replies · active 706 weeks ago
Heh. As much as I agree with you that there are too many Space Marine players, I cannot help the numbers myself. I started playing Warhammer 40k in late 2000 and as soon as the Black Templars were released in Codex Armageddon, I was hooked and have been playing them ever since. I have no intention of setting them on the shelves permanently.

However, I DO dabble in the Dark Eldar from time to time. Just sayin'. ;)
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
I play Tyranids, Orks an Dark Eldar.

This article is very much concurrent with my views. In particular, Space Marines being three or four times more expensive with stats to match.

Final note; all written fluff involving the imperium can be summarized in four words;
Space-Marine-Fan-Wank.
2 replies · active 706 weeks ago
In Black Library's defence and from a novel-writing point of view, it's very hard to create a coherent plot and characters when you are trying to write from the perspective of something truly alien. The big danger is that you will write something where:

- Eldar are humans with pointy ears and mystical ways of talking.
- Tau are humans with a caste system and groovy technology.
- Dark eldar are humans with a sadistic streak
- Orks are human thugs
- Chaos Daemons are humans with eeeeevil plans.

With respect to Necrons and Tyranids, I don't think you can have characters in a novel setting without drastically altering the background of how those races are supposed to be. They are inherently alien, non-individualistic and do not communicate in the verbal way that is necessary in a novel format to create the character interplay.

So the human-centric novels take centre stage because they give us characters we can relate to, cheer on and empathise with as they go through the struggles of the plot. There's also the thing that you want to avoid killing off your main character in the plot where possible since he/she should be the main attachment to the story for the reader. In Black Library's case, there are a lot of sequels and trilogies too, which means you definitely don't want to kill off your character. I haven't read the Fall of Damnos but I suspect that the Necron infighting was there to give the characters time to get out of whatever trouble they were in ready to evacuate the world (if I'm thinking of the right Damnos)

As far as books with the Imperium really losing, the second Grey Knights book Dark Adeptus doesn't go well for them, Storm of Iron has them losing one of the two worlds that can produce gene-seed and Star of Damocles (out of print now?) shows the Tau beating the Imperium in the Damocles Gulf crusade.

Those are my novel-writing thoughts ;-)

---

From a rules/gaming point of view I do agree that there is a serious Imperial focus in the model fluff and rules coming out of GW though. I much prefer what you see from Forge World as they seem to be happier introducing failures and defeats for the Imperium in their rules. The Taros campaign is a win for the Tau, the Anphelion project shows what happens when you try to breed Nids and the Siege of Vraks books, while technically an Imperial victory, have them losing tens of millions of soldiers and ends with the world of Vraks becoming uninhabitable. I think they have a much better balance of fluff writing than the main GW rules studio.

As far as gaming on the tabletop, I'm a Deathwing player right now but that's because I've been travelling internationally and needed an army that could be carried easily (27 terminators at 1500 is simple). If I had the time and money I would like to get my ork army back, start a Tau army again and, thanks in large part to Dash's Dakka tactica, I want to get a Dark Eldar skimmer army up and running. Now if only the price was more reasonable to buy all the transports required for said army.

Pete
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 706 weeks ago

Can I give this an article a thumbs-down? Get off your fucking high horse, man. If people are playing armies that they're excited about playing, either due to success in the game, success in the fiction, because they like 8-foot-tall-space knights, or if they like playing the fragile xenos underdog, what the fuck is it to you?

You do well enough in tournaments to prove that DE can be plenty strong, so let that speak for itself.
7 replies · active 706 weeks ago
I must say I am offended at being labelled as pathetic for playing an army that porvides different tactic opportunities of play then other armies out there. yes, i play a variety of Space marines but lets compare how many space amrine codexes there are out there and how many non-space marine codicies there are. Space marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black templars, Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines. Eldar, Dark Eldar, daemons of Chaos, Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, Orks. Other Imperial Armies, Sisters of battle, Imperial Guard. I'm pretty sure that's all of them. SO. of the 16 armies available to a player, 8 are imperial and a full 75% of those Imperial armies are space marines of one sort or another. That leaves the other 50% of the codices as non-imperial, but CSM are also space marines so that leaves less then half the codicies out there as non-imperial. So in a perfect world the Imperium outnumbers the rest of the universe army wise.

Fluff vs The reality of GW Marketting Vs Sick of Playing against updated codicies because theys ell more mini's then the older xenos is not a great arguement Dash. yay, you are sick of facing space marines at tournies. Fair enough. But it's an unfair statement of all space marine players are crap and pathetic as they only play the one army. news Flash - each codex offers different army challenges and tactical plays. What you are raging about to me is the fact that these days so many of the space marine armies out there are all internet herp derp copy cat lists, no one, or rather very few people, play outside the box. ecverything is maxcimising stuff and not messing with other approaches. I know Spaguatyrine does it, I know i do it, heck I get slammed pretty hard for running stupidly awesome Space Wolf Armies that just shouldn't win that do, but I think that rather then raging at people for playing a space marine army you should be raging at people for playing spammed same army as the next guy and the next chap and that girl over there has or a slight variant to it. Do you know how much shit i got from people for postinga list where your Long fang Pack leaders have special weapons and the Rifleman Dreadnought has a drop Pod? So much it's not funny. The pathetic players are the people who are too stupid and narrow minded toe xplore their armies beyond what teh internetz seems to think is the gospel of play and the epitome of the armies. Players who don't think about their codex and don't play outside the box often if at all should be the people you should be heaping your scorn upon not the players who play a marine army and do. This applies to xenos players as well. I am sick to death of seeing Eldar Mech. It's predictable check box army lists. I KNOW how to beat those armies. throw something different at me and catch me off guard ffs. cause the xenos players suffer from this as much as the other armies do.

Fimnally pet hate No.1 - Space marine armies not ustilising the known chapters to the extent they should be. Every man and his bloody dog is ultramarines, or blood angels or space wolves or the main armies. I'm running Rainbow warriors. I know someone running Mantis Warriors, and another player who runs an army of Field Police. Space marine players who hop on the bandwagon and go 'hey Look! Ultramarines!' piss me off. there are more ultramarines players then other chapters full of marines these days and that pisses me off fiercely. I want to play against something else, i don't even care what your army composition is play a different chapter that no one else does and do something unique!

Wow, thatw as refreshing, venting like dash did above. I think I can go study now! :D
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
It's an odd thing. Naturally, the most common race at my FLGS is Space Marines... but I've notices that these players also tend to be the more frustrated when games don't go their way. I mean, yeah, losing badly makes one feel down, but I tend to notice Space Marine players more so than other races start treating the game as unfair when they are in a rut.

I would really, really love to see more racial variety. I've played against Space Marines (and their variants) countless times. Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Tyranids, Imperial Guard, I've only played against two or three times. Daemons I've played against once. The rest, I've never had the chance to play against.

It's getting a bit... boring, you know? And... maybe trying out a Xenos race could result in them enjoying the hobby more? I think that's a bit of a selfish hope, though.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
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GreySeerZ · 706 weeks ago

I'm actually considering getting back into Chaos Space Marines. I have been running a Dark Eldar list recently, love them, but I like to have two armies in each system (fantasy/40k) to keep my options open. Currently I have a small CSM force and a massive space marine army (oddly enough I started them when I spent a year in New Zealand, and everyone else was already playing a Xenos so they wanted me to play them, haha). Needless to say, I picked up my space marine army and just played it 2 days ago. I won, but GOD DAMN it was boring. I was so sick of knowing what everything did, what units to take, and how to win.

At this point I decided to sell my space marines, all 8000 pts of them. Most are unpainted, so it doesn't bother me to lose my minis, and there are a few I'll keep (I like my deathwatch marines), but most of it has got to go. I could probably get a good $1/2K out of it, and I would much rather spend that buffing up my CSM, or possibly starting something else (played Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, so don't really know where to go from here :/).

Anyone suggest a good Xenos army besides DE? I like DE, but I want something different. Maybe I will simply play my CSMs again in anticipation of the Legions book (I want my word bearers to ACTUALLY bear the word, not just walk around like Black Legion...). I think there were a lot more CSM back then, when you could create truly fluffy armies, hopefully that will return.

My other option is to sell them off, and make the Lizardmen army I always wanted. Sadly I think both CSM and LIzardmen will be getting updates in the next year, so I'm hesitant to do either :(.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
As a DE player since 3rd, I agree with your sentiments about the love for xenos armies. But having majority marine armies in tournaments is nothing new. Back in 3rd you would run into roughly 50-60% marines in tournaments but that was also back in the day where Dark Eldar were THE anti-marine army too.

My Tau are waiting for a new codex, my Eldar are outclassed by psykers across the imperium, Ghazkull is great but he cant take on every SM super HQ at once. Between Eldar, Tau, and might as well throw in chaos a few updates as well. I believe this article should have been more to the sense of "lets have some non-imperial army love". Hoping the new Necron codex changes things.
g-g-g-g-g-guest's avatar

g-g-g-g-g-guest · 706 weeks ago

I appreciate this article.

My major comment would be to allow multiple space marine chapters, but present them like the Badab war books. There is no reason to give Wolves/BA/DA/BT/etc. their own codices. It just prompts more people to pick up the "new book" that is just slightly different than the old one. Make it a one-stop-shop for marine players.

I also like the idea of making Marines closer to the movie marine list. More expensive, always outnumbered, and extremely strong. It would match the fluff a thousand times better than the current space marine codex.

But seriously, fuck space marines. So boring to play and play against. Orks ftw.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
Steve Lyons' "Dead Men Walking" has the Necrons unequivocally winning.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 706 weeks ago

Orks kick the shit out of IG in "13 hours."
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spyguyyoda · 706 weeks ago

My experience in picking up 40k (chronological):
Dark Eldar - OMGWTF AWESOME!!!! Where are all the models? Oh, they don't make them yet...
SW - WOAH, Space werewolf vikings? I'll play those while I wait.
GK - This book is pretty cool, I'll pick up a couple of terminators...
DE - Hey, the models I want are finally out...
Daemons - I want more big monsters. Daemon Princes FTW!

I like Xenos, but I kind of have army ADD...I've only been playing 7 months =(

One of the reasons I went to NOVA with my DE was because I like them, and I wanted to get some experience playing against armies besides SM and people besides my friends...I played two SWs, two DA, ultramarines, Tau, IG, and GK.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
My first army was Necrons. I still play them time to time while waiting for the codex that makes them worth playing again. My second army was Space Marines. I picked them up for the simple reason that I love the modeling and painting aspects of the game and once I had done pretty much every unit in the Necron codex there was simply nothing else to go around untill the Forge World Tombstalked (which I own now, too). For Space Marines you got a HUGE range of units ready and something new coming pretty much every third month. So basically there will NEVER be enough xenos players untill xenos start to get some support from GW. Thats just how it is.

The only grim spot of darkness in the shine of all those new space marines is that if you do like me and play Codex: Space Marines you ARE the underdog. Everyone else has gone for Space Vampires/Werewolves/Harrypotters.
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Meister_Kai · 705 weeks ago

They make Xenos books Dash, it's all good.

Read Path of the Warrior, its a book about Eldar. In the last chapter Space Marines come out of nowhere and kill 2/3's of the books characters, and a Phoenix Lord is killed by a normal Dreadnought.

I started playing Warhammer about a year or so ago with Eldar. I wanted to play Dark Eldar, but I also wanted to wait for the new models.

You see Dash, the thing about Eldar is is that they can't beat Space Wolves. Especially Loganwing, just not going to happen unless you get lucky as shit or your opponent fucks up.

Dark Eldar finally came out, but by the time they did my want for a new army was pretty low, and about 2 months ago I just said fuck it and moved to Warmachine, where I am honest to god a lot happier. I won't sell my Eldar, shit they might be good when their book comes out in 2 or so years, but I picked Eldar because like you, nobody played Eldar and I liked being unique (sue me). I can't wait until Eldar are good and all the Space Wolf/whatever players pick up the army while giving random excuses about how Eldar now fit their playstyle etc.

GW/40K won't change Dash, it will always be about the Space Marines dominating.
I am not sorry! I love my Space Marines! They speak to me. They are noble and I love it. I imagine the Marines are like my unit when I am deployed. Our camaraderie means everything. They are family.
I stand up for what I think is right. I would die for the guy next to me. I will fall back when the tactics dictate, but I will never retreat! I will jump in front of the Lance shot to ensure the melta gunner gets to blow up the Xeno troop carrier! I will fight on until the very end!
Don’t be a hater! I do not hate you for being a power player who just wants to win. That is what you want. Do no force that on every other player at the tournament. You are an amazing Little Dude General, you are a great Little Dude Tactician and you rock at this game. I do not want to be you. I want to build a SM army that has Sicarius and six Rhino’s with full Tactical Squads (that is not competitive)…I wish I could paint well enough to do them justice, but in my head they look AWESOME!!!
Please let those who want to play SM, play SM.
I am not sorry! Me and all my buddies love our Space Marines!!! For the Emperor!!!
Besides, the Imperium IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE! WE ARE SURROUNDED BY XENO SCUM! That is why every battle is a battle against me and my brothers!!!

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