Hey Dash/Hulk/or anyone else...
I kinda have the same problem with Dash here has DE doesn't scale really well at 2.5k level while maintaining some coherency and redundancy. But I will say this… I’m going to build Vect with is ride as this is really the only point level I think Vect would work. Let me know what you think:
The Love Bird List (2500pt)
HQ: Vect + Dias of Destruction
HQ: Lady Malys
Troop: 5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop: 5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop: 5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop: 9x Wyches + a Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler, in a Raider with a Flickerfield, Shock Prow, and Grisly Trophies
Troop: 7x Wyches + a Hekatrix Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler (to go with Vect & Malys in Dias of Destruction)
Elite: 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Elite: 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Elite: 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Fast: 3x Reaver Jetbikes with 1x Blaster
Fast: 3x Reaver Jetbikes with 1x Blaster
Fast: 3x Reaver Jetbikes with 1x Heat Lance
Heavy: Ravager with triple Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow
Heavy: Ravager with triple Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow
Heavy: Ravager with triple Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow
The Idea is to deliver Vect’s unit asap to the enemy (Dias + Malys’ immunity to psyhics helps with unit’s resiliency). Reavers take the harassment roll and can pop high-valued targets (like GreenBaron Deffkoptas) Vect also can help with sieze init (but that’s NOT the reason I have him)… Vect is simply a DE model I want in this list, even if it’s not the most efficient use of his points. But pound-per-pound, he’s almost as powerful as Ghazzy (Ghazzy being 1a, and Vect 1b).
Also Malys' abiility to re-deploy D3 units (even into reserve!) is an intriguing tactic...
Thoughts??
I kinda have the same problem with Dash here has DE doesn't scale really well at 2.5k level while maintaining some coherency and redundancy. But I will say this… I’m going to build Vect with is ride as this is really the only point level I think Vect would work. Let me know what you think:
The Love Bird List (2500pt)
HQ: Vect + Dias of Destruction
HQ: Lady Malys
Troop: 5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop: 5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop: 5x Warriors with Blaster in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop: 9x Wyches + a Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler, in a Raider with a Flickerfield, Shock Prow, and Grisly Trophies
Troop: 7x Wyches + a Hekatrix Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler (to go with Vect & Malys in Dias of Destruction)
Elite: 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Elite: 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Elite: 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Venom with Dual Splinter Cannons
Fast: 3x Reaver Jetbikes with 1x Blaster
Fast: 3x Reaver Jetbikes with 1x Blaster
Fast: 3x Reaver Jetbikes with 1x Heat Lance
Heavy: Ravager with triple Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow
Heavy: Ravager with triple Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow
Heavy: Ravager with triple Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow
The Idea is to deliver Vect’s unit asap to the enemy (Dias + Malys’ immunity to psyhics helps with unit’s resiliency). Reavers take the harassment roll and can pop high-valued targets (like GreenBaron Deffkoptas) Vect also can help with sieze init (but that’s NOT the reason I have him)… Vect is simply a DE model I want in this list, even if it’s not the most efficient use of his points. But pound-per-pound, he’s almost as powerful as Ghazzy (Ghazzy being 1a, and Vect 1b).
Also Malys' abiility to re-deploy D3 units (even into reserve!) is an intriguing tactic...
Thoughts??
Reply:
I have to ask if you have read the missions?
I'm probably going to be a bit meaner than I was with Dash and that's because in all honesty Dash is probably going to roll anyone he runs into tomorrow just based on ability. He can probably take a horribly unoptimized list (like he is) and do ok with it since it's the first round. But since I don't know you personally or your skill level I'm going to go ahead, be a bit brutal, and break down the list.
Malys & Vect combo, while cute, is kinda pointless. I'd avoid her and add some friendly Haemons for FnP tokens.
Also insisting on taking the Dias is seriously going to impact what you can take. Looking at the list it has little to no resilience. Like I mentioned in the other comments Ard Boyz is about out lasting your opponent. Your list is bleeding kill points and easily gained victory points. For Ard Boyz you either need to be able to take 31 Missile Launcher shots per turn or be able to blow 6-7 squads off the table on turn one. Your list can do neither. You need to be able to handle 180 enemy models through CC or shooting. Again, your list comes up short.
Basically it comes down to what you have model wise for Ard Boyz. But I'd invest in 2-3 full Beast Master units that run ya about 270 (10 Kymerae & 6 Razorwings). I'd invest for sure and certain in some more combat oriented units and scale down on the transport spam. Personally I'd adjust to allow for using a Webway portal. I'd probably switch at this point level from Ravagers to Taloi as well. Ravagers go down way, way to easy at 2.5k. If you use the webways even moderately well they are tough units that can over the game produce far more than a Ravager.
Overall I think you list lacks the punch or resiliency to carry the day. It feels randomly thrown together without thought on interacting units, the missions you'll be playing, or understanding of how builds differ at 2,500.
Give me a list of models in this and I can probably put something more solid together for you but for now I'd say take a different army if this is all you have available for Dark Eldar.
Also insisting on taking the Dias is seriously going to impact what you can take. Looking at the list it has little to no resilience. Like I mentioned in the other comments Ard Boyz is about out lasting your opponent. Your list is bleeding kill points and easily gained victory points. For Ard Boyz you either need to be able to take 31 Missile Launcher shots per turn or be able to blow 6-7 squads off the table on turn one. Your list can do neither. You need to be able to handle 180 enemy models through CC or shooting. Again, your list comes up short.
Basically it comes down to what you have model wise for Ard Boyz. But I'd invest in 2-3 full Beast Master units that run ya about 270 (10 Kymerae & 6 Razorwings). I'd invest for sure and certain in some more combat oriented units and scale down on the transport spam. Personally I'd adjust to allow for using a Webway portal. I'd probably switch at this point level from Ravagers to Taloi as well. Ravagers go down way, way to easy at 2.5k. If you use the webways even moderately well they are tough units that can over the game produce far more than a Ravager.
Overall I think you list lacks the punch or resiliency to carry the day. It feels randomly thrown together without thought on interacting units, the missions you'll be playing, or understanding of how builds differ at 2,500.
Give me a list of models in this and I can probably put something more solid together for you but for now I'd say take a different army if this is all you have available for Dark Eldar.
Logging you in...
whembly · 711 weeks ago
I'll do my best to answer...
Reply:
I have to ask if you have read the missions?
Whembly's Reply: Yes I have and there's a method to my madness... frankly... I ignore the missions till turn 4/5. It's a heavy shootly list: 13x 36" DL, 18x 18" Blaster, 72x 36" Splinter Cannon, and 12x 24" splinter rifle. Therefore, i'm bringing 31 x STR 8 Lance shots and 84 poison shots to this table. It's a Bliztkrieg of DE taking target practice.
I'm probably going to be a bit meaner than I was with Dash and that's because in all honesty Dash is probably going to roll anyone he runs into tomorrow just based on ability. He can probably take a horribly unoptimized list (like he is) and do ok with it since it's the first round. But since I don't know you personally or your skill level I'm going to go ahead, be a bit brutal, and break down the list.
Whembly's Reply: 'Tis cool man... I can take constructive critism... I'm still learning how to club back! ;)
Malys & Vect combo, while cute, is kinda pointless. I'd avoid her and add some friendly Haemons for FnP tokens.
Whembly's Reply: Bluntly... I don't "have" enough other models to fill it out to 2500 pts and I'm sill new at this army, I figured taking this sort of list to an 'Ard boyz tourny is really a training session for me. Vect is a CC monster and has great flexiablity. With him in the Dias, he has a better chance of getting to where he needs to be as opposed to be in a regular raider/venom. In my meta, I'm playing against a lot of psykers, so I find Malys's immunity (and her squad) intriging... she's (and the squad) are immune to lash/JotWW/Doom/etc... and I seen that ALOT.
Also insisting on taking the Dias is seriously going to impact what you can take.
Whembly's Reply: Again... lack of models...
Looking at the list it has little to no resilience.
Whembly's Reply: Dias is a flying landraider that is nimble enough to stay out of melta range... granted I only played about 5 games with a list like this, but Dias was still on the table. But, I digress... DE isn't about resilience or out-lasting the opponent, it's about bringing enough firepower to bear to cripple the units that are extremely dangerous to my wet paper airplane army... And, so far, I think having target saturation is one of the ways for DE to survive (yeah, sucks on kill points).
Like I mentioned in the other comments Ard Boyz is about out lasting your a opponent. Your list is bleeding kill points and easily gained victory points. For Ard Boyz you either need to be able to take 31 Missile Launcher shots per turn or be able to blow 6-7 squads off the table on turn one. Your list can do neither. You need to be able to handle 180 enemy models through CC or shooting. Again, your list comes up short.
Whembly's Reply: Good point... we'll see how it goes... but 31 lance shots and 84 poison shots aint nuthing to brush off. Granted this is my first 2500 pt list. But my 2k list is very similar and of the 5 games I played, I tabled an all termie Dark Angel list and a Driago Wing Grey knight (which I think we'll see alot of in 1st rnd of this tourny) and the other 3 games I won comfortably... but, then again, this is my first 'Ard Boyz, so I'm probably going to get curb stomped. I'm just gonna go out there, scout out what's 'Ard Boyz like and have fun. Then next year, I'll be better prepared (I should've asked you sooner since now I can change it).
Basically it comes down to what you have model wise for Ard Boyz. But I'd invest in 2-3 full Beast Master units that run ya about 270 (10 Kymerae & 6 Razorwings).
Whembly's Reply: Yeah... i think that'd be a great idea... drop Vect/Malys/Dias/Reavers... then work in 2/3 buffy BeastMaster units with a bunch Haemy. I think that'd be a great list.
I'd invest for sure and certain in some more combat oriented units and scale down on the transport spam.
Whembly's Reply: Yeah... i'm limited due to my models... (I had a great ebay deal on this army and only had to buy 2 more venoms for my trueborn units). With this list, the idea is use the wych squad either as speed bumps or crack tough vehicles with haywire 'nads. Depending on army, Vect can go off by himself.
slxiii · 711 weeks ago
And if you only have the models for that exact list, why even ask for advice? If you can't change anything, just run it as is.
whembly · 711 weeks ago
remember, I'm still learning and these conversations are helpful with me thinking very tactically. It's a diff mindset for me because I usually play orks... just point 'em at bad guys and krump 'em. Can't do that with DE...
I am *eyeing* GW for some beastmaster units....
whembly · 711 weeks ago
Whembly's Reply: *Pondering* Ravagers are more vulnerable in 2.5k game than normal 2k game?
Overall I think you list lacks the punch or resiliency to carry the day. It feels randomly thrown together without thought on interacting units, the missions you'll be playing, or understanding of how builds differ at 2,500.
Whembly's Reply: You're probably right... again, I'm still learning this Army (I'm a fast player so I won't slowdown the game). Playing different army/people really helps me understand my army.
Give me a list of models in this and I can probably put something more solid together for you but for now I'd say take a different army if this is all you have available for Dark Eldar.
Whembly's Reply: Including this list, I have one more Raider, 10x Scourges (yuk!) and about 25 more Warriors. I'm really liking your idea about the BeastMasters as I think 2/3 units of this and a Heamy with a Portal is something to reckon with. I'm sure a backbone of my current list with haemy + Beastmasters would work nicely.
Thanks for taking some time for this critique... there's no such thing as being too harsh as I'm still learning. If by some chance I "do" make it to the next Round, I'd consider bringing my Kanwall list.
I'll let you know how I do tomorrow.
Good luck everyone!
Dashofpepper · 711 weeks ago
Like, "Dash sucks at writing lists, but he's going to kick ass because he's good."
Hulksmash · 711 weeks ago
But yeah, I'm a sweety :D
whembly · 711 weeks ago
Good luck ya'll... leaving for the "Ard Boyz tourny!
whembly · 711 weeks ago
I may bring my Kanwall to the next round tho... some lists are getting pretty scary.
For the prize, we could only pickup the GW boxes... not the Blisters. So, no beastmasters for me. :'(
Hulksmash · 711 weeks ago
newtoncain · 711 weeks ago
Hulksmash · 711 weeks ago
Dashofpepper · 711 weeks ago