So I was reading Dakka on Friday and I headed into a section I rarely head into anymore for fear of my sanity. The Army List section. I know most of you are thinking WHY? Well it kinda worked out. L'Etat C'Est Moi, who comments on here, had put up a Tyranid list for review for the upcoming Darkstar GT which I’ll also be attending. I read it and asked permission to post my response and thoughts on the blog and was given permission. Here is the list complete with the builders comments:
“HQ
190 Tervigon (Catalyst/Onslaught/Cluster Spines)
190 Tervigon (Catalyst/Onslaught/Cluster Spines)
~No glands or toxin sacs as I do not assault with gants. They are objective holders and bubble wrap. I instead use the points on onslaught which I have used every single game with nids. It ensures that hive guard get shots off turn one.
Elite
100 Hive Guard [2]
100 Hive Guard [2]
100 Hive Guard [2]
~Reliable suppression fire.
Troops
495 Points of Genestealers ~This is one of the big debates that I have with myself. The three options I stick with are;
.....3 Squads (10,10,9) With Only Toxin Sacs
.....2 Squads (15,14) With Only Toxin Sacs
.....2 Squads (13,13) With Both Toxin Sacs and Scything Talons
The differences between the gains from buying scything talons or the extra bodies is extremely marginal, which is the main reason I do not have a clear gut feeling on this. I also am in debate about the amount/size of squads. On one hand bigger squads are more survivable but on the flip side smaller squads are more likely to not blow out combat and be left in the open as well as allowing me to have more options (both in deployment strategies - infiltrating and outflanking - and in on table tactics). Decisions, decisions.
Fast Attack
120 Gargoyles [15] (Toxin Sacs/Adrenal Glands)
~Not only does this make a forward moving screen unit, but for only 120 points you have a fast moving squad that can beat a tactical squad in combat. Until termagants are spawned this provides cover.
Heavy Support
210 Trygon (Adrenal Glands)
210 Trygon (Adrenal Glands)
~I plan to start him on the table. This allows for me at worst to get a turn three assault (whereas deep striking is only turn three assault in the best case scenario), but could even lead to a turn two charge. Even if he does get shot due to being an on table target, any shots at a Trygon are shots that are not hitting Tervigons. Adrenal Glands may not be entirely needed, but the extra strength on the charge helps take care of land raiders (which is a concern as this list does not have Zoanthropes).
135 Biovore [3]
~Not a popular choice in many tournament lists, but very functional. This list lacks a way to take out massed infantry (Orks), protected shooting (Long Fangs), or objective squatters behind the main lines. These guys fill that roll. Every army has infantry, so they can be used every game. not only that, but opponents will avoid bunching up infantry. They can either spread them in lines parallel to their board edge, or spread them out. Most players based on observation spread them out. This practice makes their infantry units come several inches closer to mine which can help with getting early charges. “
190 Tervigon (Catalyst/Onslaught/Cluster Spines)
190 Tervigon (Catalyst/Onslaught/Cluster Spines)
~No glands or toxin sacs as I do not assault with gants. They are objective holders and bubble wrap. I instead use the points on onslaught which I have used every single game with nids. It ensures that hive guard get shots off turn one.
Elite
100 Hive Guard [2]
100 Hive Guard [2]
100 Hive Guard [2]
~Reliable suppression fire.
Troops
495 Points of Genestealers ~This is one of the big debates that I have with myself. The three options I stick with are;
.....3 Squads (10,10,9) With Only Toxin Sacs
.....2 Squads (15,14) With Only Toxin Sacs
.....2 Squads (13,13) With Both Toxin Sacs and Scything Talons
The differences between the gains from buying scything talons or the extra bodies is extremely marginal, which is the main reason I do not have a clear gut feeling on this. I also am in debate about the amount/size of squads. On one hand bigger squads are more survivable but on the flip side smaller squads are more likely to not blow out combat and be left in the open as well as allowing me to have more options (both in deployment strategies - infiltrating and outflanking - and in on table tactics). Decisions, decisions.
Fast Attack
120 Gargoyles [15] (Toxin Sacs/Adrenal Glands)
~Not only does this make a forward moving screen unit, but for only 120 points you have a fast moving squad that can beat a tactical squad in combat. Until termagants are spawned this provides cover.
Heavy Support
210 Trygon (Adrenal Glands)
210 Trygon (Adrenal Glands)
~I plan to start him on the table. This allows for me at worst to get a turn three assault (whereas deep striking is only turn three assault in the best case scenario), but could even lead to a turn two charge. Even if he does get shot due to being an on table target, any shots at a Trygon are shots that are not hitting Tervigons. Adrenal Glands may not be entirely needed, but the extra strength on the charge helps take care of land raiders (which is a concern as this list does not have Zoanthropes).
135 Biovore [3]
~Not a popular choice in many tournament lists, but very functional. This list lacks a way to take out massed infantry (Orks), protected shooting (Long Fangs), or objective squatters behind the main lines. These guys fill that roll. Every army has infantry, so they can be used every game. not only that, but opponents will avoid bunching up infantry. They can either spread them in lines parallel to their board edge, or spread them out. Most players based on observation spread them out. This practice makes their infantry units come several inches closer to mine which can help with getting early charges. “
So let’s start with the HQ and the Elites. They are both fine. I understand the Onslaught vs. Toxin/Adrenal bit and can understand the choice. I think it’s even somewhat of a helpful way to mitigate against things like DE who massively outrange you with their venom spam. The elites are how I normally run my elite section so obviously no issue there J
Let’s jump down to the Heavy Support. I like the Biovores. I think they become even more useful with Necrons out there as the AP4 Large Blast will just eat Warriors and Crypteks. However I do have a problem with the Trygons. And it’s the same problem that is the reason I simply don’t run them unless I’m sure of the event I’m attending. That is that unless you know there is going to be decent LoS blocking terrain these units likely won’t see combat against the majority of top end lists out there. You have managed to bring your own cover save across the rest of the field but you can’t do that really with Trygons. I love the model, the speed, and the deadliness but they just don’t match up unless terrain is excellent. And even then you have to be a bit more careful thanks to GK’s entering the scene and their ability to single hit pop the big guys. Overall I’d drop them both. I’ll save the restructure for after I’ve reviewed troops and fast attack.
Onto Fast Attack. Gargoyles are excellent. However Gargoyles are a screen that you will likely not manage to get the entire unit engaged due to model shapes and sizes. Add in that you are purchasing them for a screen until the gaunts arrive and that they’ll likely go pop relatively fast I’d say drop the poison and adrenal glands.
Now for troops. 30 Genestealers is solid. But honestly not enough for troops and not in the format you’ve got them in. Why? Because thanks to GK’s (and you will run into them) and the lack of assault grenades you need bodies. Not to mention at this point they are your only troops but also a major part of your combat and force projection. What this means is your troops are currently unworkable.
So for 1,850 and trying to stay within the framework you put down here is what I would take to a competitive event:
HQ
Tyranid Prime – 90
Dual Boneswords
Parasite of Montrax – 160
Elite
2 Hive Guard – 100
2 Hive Guard – 100
2 Hive Guard – 100
Troops
15 Genestealers – 210
15 Genestealers – 210
10 Gants – 50
10 Gants – 50
Tervigon – 190
Onslaught, Catalyst
Tervigon – 190
Onslaught, Catalyst
Fast Attack
20 Gargoyles – 120
Heavy Support
Carnifex – 190
2xDual Devourevers
Biovore – 45
Biovore – 45
This is what I’d based on the initial list. Let’s look at the reasons for the changes.
As you can see the HQ slot has radically changed. The two models you weren’t even going to take have been added. Well the Prime has been added for his instant and moderate CC abilities and to combo with the Carnifex we added which we’ll cover later. The Parasite has been added as a forward synapse and a means to flush out your Gargoyle support. He adds some solid fast CC that can even make new little friends pop up once in a while. And no, I’ve never noticed him to be a problem in a KP mission.
Elites naturally didn’t change so let’s move onto to troops. As you can see we moved your Tervigons into this slot and added 2 squads of Gants. This allows you to use the Gargoyles as a more offensive screen when you deploy and also increases your scoring ability overall. I’ve kept the 30 Genestealers but dropped the Toxin Sacs and put them into 2 squads of 15. This will give you the bodies to survive to rip through most units. You’ll still need to be careful of Purifiers but anything else you’ll now have enough left after attrition to remove after 2 rounds of combat.
In Fast Attack I simply dropped the toxin/adrenal in favor of more bodies. You’ll already have an issue getting them all into CC anyway and again the ability to take more hits in todays environment is important.
Heavy Support changed a bit. As you can see I dropped the Trygons due to my views on their viability without terrain similar to Nova’s and I’ve added the Carnifex. The additional insane numbers of St6 shooting is solid and the prime and carnifex make an excellent little counter assault unit. Add in he’s got cover just standing behind gants thanks to the prime and you’re in business. Due to points I’ve had to drop a Biovore but I also split them as I had the FO slots to do it now. This allows you to hit multiple units and if you get a bad initial scatter to not waste the other model due to the barrage rules.
Those are the changes I’d make and the reasons why. Hope that helps.
