Tuesday, July 12, 2011

All Terminator Lists Part 2: Wolfwing


We’re now onto the second portion of the three part article on all Terminator armies. I chose to do Wolf Guard second since I was toying last night with the list for the Invitational (yes, the Invitational is 1,750 and the articles are based around 2k, sue me) and so it’s fresh in my mind. Plus I wanted to close out the series with GK’s J

Anywho, onto the article.

The second of the three armies that can take an all terminator army is Space Wolves. In fact, if you remember, until the FAQ came out for DA’s most people playing Deathwing and slightly shifted to play Wolfwing as it provided a better and more competitive Terminator army. So let’s look first at some of the differences between Wolfwing and Deathwing as they currently stand.

To take Wolfwing you need a special character. That’s no different than Deathwing except that your character is everything Belial wishes he could be while also being over twice the points. This means you’re paying a much higher “tax” to take terminators as troops. WG Termies also aren’t Fearless which is a bit of a disadvantage in such a low model count list. And they’re equipment is bought is bought individually which means a much higher cost for the same type of units that Deathwing field.

Enough of the disadvantages, let’s look at some advantages. Oddly enough many of the disadvantages are also their advantages. Logan, while much more expensive, is an EW beast of a character who massively increases the close combat effectiveness of his unit. He has most attacks, at higher weapon skill, than Belial and can actually choose his weapon instead of being locked in. The higher cost to make TH/SS terminators is also negated by the fact that properly built WG Terminators are cheaper/same cost as Deathwing but with more versatility.

In the overall scheme of things Wolfwing suffers from the same issues as all other pure terminator lists in its low model count and low unit count. So how do we build an effective all Terminator list? To be honest I’m not sure that you can. Much like Deathwing, I think that a Wolfwing listis probably going to need support units. However the type of support units you’ll be looking at are much different than the with Deathwing. So let’s start with what I would consider a basic squad of Terminators for a Wolfwing list:

5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor
4 of them have Combi-Weapons (Generally Plasma) and Wolf Claws
1 of them has Chainfist and Cyclone

That’s a 250pt unit that is a pretty solid take all comers unit. I generally tend to take combi-plasma on these units as it’s more useful for what your lacking than combi-melta. This also allows for some bolter shot clearance at range, something you can’t do with Deathwing without taking “Tac” squads. The Wolf Claws are also nasty as choose what to re-roll every turn which can be nice. But it gets downright ridiculous when Logan happens to join a unit since they’ll now re-roll to hit and wound. Granted you only have one Logan so he won’t be boosting all squads but it’s nice to know wherever you need him he’ll massively increase your damage output.

Now, assuming 2,000pts, I wouldn’t fill my force org up with these units. Granted it’s a nice unit but it does have its disadvantages (such as getting torn up by dedicated, high init. Units) and you’ll need some more support throughout your list to make it work. So my initial feeling is 3 such units. That gives you a solid core for your force. Now I’ve personally had a ton of success with a unit designed to accompany Logan that takes full advantage of his abilities. Granted that unit normally sheds a few WG to other units as bullet catchers or sergeants but it normally looks something like this:

10 Wolf Guard (4 in Power Armor, 6 in Terminator Armor)
All Power Armor w/combi-weapon
2 Terminators w/Stormshield and Wolf Claw
2 Standard Terminators
2 Terminators w/Cyclone and Chainfist

It’s not a cheap unit by any means but it does allow you to take full advantage of Tank Hunters and has a ton of counter-attacking power weapon attacks that re-roll to hit.

Let’s look at some of the supporting units that are a big help to a list like this in my opinion. You know I like to stay away from armor in a terminator list as that just makes target priority for your opponent easier since his missiles can kill Dreads much easier than termies. That said there are 4 easy support units I’d like to focus on:

-Thunderwolf Calvary
-Long Fangs
-Lone Wolves
-Wolf Scouts

Which one you prefer is probably based on your playstyle. Lone Wolves are blockers for your main force and can really help keep units that would run through one of your squads out of play. Thunderwolf Cav are disruption units that used in 1-2 man squads can force your opponent to ignore your troops as they move up the field. Long Fangs naturally excel at making your opponents army an all foot army like yours and cheap missile launchers are never a bad thing. Wolf Scouts are a great disruption unit as well and affect the opponent from deployment forward.

That all being said here is a quick list that I feel can compete in the 2,000pt range.

Logan
2x5 Wolf Scouts w/Melta
3x5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor
4 of them have Combi-Weapons (Generally Plasma) and Wolf Claws
1 of them has Chainfist and Cyclone
10 Wolf Guard (4 in Power Armor, 6 in Terminator Armor)
1 Power Armor w/Combi-Melta and Power Fist
3 Power Armor w/BP+CCW
2 Terminators w/Stormshield and Wolf Claw
2 Standard Terminators
2 Terminators w/Cyclone and Chainfist
2xThunder Wolf Calvary w/Power Fist
2x5 Long Fangs w/4 Missile Launchers

It’s got disruption, 18 Missile shots (4 of them St9), and solid close combat abilities.

That’s it for this one, I’m almost finished with the last batrep to which should go live tomorrow. Thoughts on Wolfwing armies? Experiences? This is probably my most theoretical of the group as I’ve never played with more than Logan’s bodyguards.

Comments (13)

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Interesting list - basically a variation on the loganwing lists rocking around with just more TDA in there (which is the point of this ...)

A secret part of em does envy Logan every time I put my Belial on the table.

One other thing I do like about the SW version is that rather than just being locked into pure TH/SS you could opt to rock WC/SS (FB, or a rather nice CF) - though it fast becomes expensive with the CML upgrade costing 63 for the whole model.

On the fearless not - its a pain - but at least Logan has that option - not that you'll use it all that much (THunt or PEnemy more likely).

Interested to see how you'd scale this down to 1750 - would it be to drop 1 of the pure terminator units?
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
Yep, drop a single scoring unit and you're at what I think is a solid 1,750. Or you can drop the TWC and 1 Scout Squad and then drop 1 Combi-weapon per squad in the standard squads. It really depends on your comfort level with the troops and the event. At say....the Nova Invitational I'd probably hold onto the extra troop since I think it'd pay off far more in the long run but at a BP based tournament I'd be down a troop squad in a second. Depends on the format :)
True - tbh keeping the scoring is always going to be a solid route - think I might have a fiddle around with the list just to see how it feels against my DW
Finding the points to give Logan a WGBL or Wolf-priest buddy with Saga of the Hunter adds a lot to his unit's survivability. 3+ saves against shooting combined with extra I5 attacks (WGBL, preferably with a WC for rerolls to hit and to wound) or with Fearless and preferred enemy (from the WP - allowing Logan to pick relentless or tankhunters) makes for an even nastier unit.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
That's something I considered but haven't played with much yet. It's definitely worth noting thought it would probably lose me the two TWC.....

Excellent points though.
whitedragon's avatar

whitedragon · 716 weeks ago

I like that list alot, but I think the Deathwing will get alot more mileage due to their more numerous 3++'s and FNP. This list almost cries for a Land Raider to keep Logan and his boyz safe until he can get safely sttuck in, although where do the points for that come from?

Having another unit of wolf scouts may be better than 2x Thunderwolves, or Lonewolves, or something but you'd have to mix and match to see which is better.

Ultimately though, I'd say anything with alot of AP2 will hurt this list alot worse than the comparable deathwing with their 3++. However, this army stands to be much stronger in close combat then the deathwing.
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
I've found that most of the deadly AP1-2 stuff is 12". Which means that I'm almost always going to be rolling a 2+. My biggest issue with the standard DW is that I had to close. I had to kill units in CC. Because 5/7 squads didn't have a ranged weapon outside of my missile launchers. This however has 4 more missile shots than my 1,850 list. Has far more support in the form of other units. And has an actual ranged lascannon catcher in the form of Logan.

Regarding keeping Logan safe I think the WGBL is probably the best approach to that. It would make the unit absolutely vicious but the majority of the help would come in the form of a 3++ at range which would mean you'd own the middle of the table. And remember that DW only have FnP on a single unit and I can tell you it didn't make much of a difference over the course of 6 games (granted I didn't make a single one out of like 8 that I rolled so maybe I'm a little biased),
Not saying it's massively better than DW but it definitely plays different. I think it's the true middle ground for the Terminator based lists. With DW being almost to CC oriented and GK's being almost to shooting oriented.
Don't Wolf Guard need Drop Pods? or are you footslogging them?
Foot Slog! It works for other termies. So it's going to work for these too! Granted I am considering ways to get drop pods in there for at least one of them :)
newtoncain's avatar

newtoncain · 716 weeks ago

Nice article.
This wwekend I played vs. a Paladin Wing @ 1500. SC = makes pallys score, 10 pallys wound dis, 1 pally and 2 dreadknights w/ shunt. Mean list.
It only needs a libby and techmarine so the pallys can stay in a ruin, fortified (techmarine) and Libby giving shrouding for a 2+/FNP and 2+ cover. Expensive and hard to kill.
Well I've never used an all terminator army, and you know how I run my list, so I'm probably biased, but I would never hit the table without psychic protection. Rune priests are great, and I would definitely find a way to slot one in.
Hulk, have your Loganwing builds been exclusively Wolf Guard?

I played a Loganwing list that was basically,

Logan

WGTDA x5
WGTDA x5

GH x10
GH x10

TWC x3

Long Fang x6
Long Fang x6

The concept was based around 2-"hardened" Troop units, 2-mobile Troop units, 1-Shock unit, and 2-Long range support units. Then of course Logan joining and granting his special rules around the whole bunch.

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