Monday, March 21, 2011

Interesting Discussion on Bugs Part-2

So my first part in this series is right here: http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/2011/03/interesting-discussion-on-bugs-part-1.html

Buckle in, this one is a bit long. So we've established where I start when it comes to the core of my army builds and my final question was where do I go from there. Let's start by looking at the 3 types of units we need to add:

-Disruption
-Hammer
-Speed

All while balancing the above and the core w/target saturation. All 3 of these aren't required but they go a long way toward building a proper balanced Nid list.

I had a decent sized write-up but it looked to me more like a unit review/comparison than what I wanted so I had to delete it. So instead let's real quickly define the above for everyone from my perspective so that when I start to build on the core you understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

Disruption units are actually the easiest to define. These are units that force your opponent to change his plans. From deployment and movement to target priority and assault.

Hammer units are a little different for me. A hammer unit for me isn't one that stands toe-to-toe w/anyone and walks away. Let's be honest, Nids don't have those. We can use the Swarmlord, Prime, and 2-3 Guard but honestly it's way point heavy and doesn't work from a threat profile perspective. No a hammer unit is one that can reliably take out medium to high threats to your army. Yes, this does mean the definition of "hammer" is largely dependent on your army at large.

Speed units are units that can do some or all of the following; redeploy reasonably rapidly, make long charges, reach the enemy deployment zone by the end of the game while doing their thing (I know right, really specific).

So looking at these and at my core what would I need to add? I'll start w/disruption because this one is one of the easy ones.

There are two options for disruption in my armies I've found. One is 20 Gargoyles w/the Parasite and the other is 18-20 Genestealers in a single squad. Both work well but I think lately I've been leaning more heavily toward the Genestealers. You get the most out of FnP w/T4 instead of T3. They allow you to react after deployment and hem in your opponent. They also present an immediate threat from turn 1+ while adding another troop choice.

Ok so now my army looks like this: 1,360pts

Prime w/Dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2xTervigons w/Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
20 Genestealers
Carnifex w/Dual Devourers

Assuming I'm building for 1,850 that leaves me with just 490pts left. What I'm looking at next is another hammer. Let's face it. Our actual speed means your going to need to have 2 hammers since one is likely to find itself outmaneuvered. So I'm going to add another Prime/Carni Combo. The reason being the added devastating firepower in conjuction w/more than average cc ability and the fact that it has cover and can give cover to tervigons means it's a solid addition. It also adds to the resilient Saturation of T6 wounds on the table.

Side note: Some people have also mentioned the Hive Tyrant w/Dual Dev’s and Old Adversary w/a tyrant guard as an alternative. This comes out to the same points (I believe) and does add some extra CC to the entire army. My one critique is that it’s not designed to fill a hole like the Prime/Fex. But it was worth of a mention.

So after the addition of another Prime/Fex we’re sitting at this: 1,650pts

2xPrime w/Dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2xTervigons w/Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
20 Genestealers
2xCarnifex w/Dual Devourers

So we’ve got 200pts left and no “speed” units. Now there are some opportunities to add speed. 200pts gives you 6 Raveners w/Rending or 25 Kitted Gargoyles. Both are fast moving, decently hitting columns of units. Also the Trygon can’t not be mentioned as with Fleet he has a tendency to reach much farther than you’d expect and can redeploy rather swiftly. I’ve experimented with both and found that fast units work best in doubles.

Unfortunately at 1,850 we don’t have the room to double up on any “speed” units. So my original thought was to add wounds for T6 saturation and in went a Trygon. Seems like a good idea right? Force the enemy to deal w/another 6 T6 wounds? Well turns out after some playing that without two of them it doesn’t work. It’s too easy of a threat to single out and eliminate. So how do I get another major threat that enhances the saturation of the army as it currently stands?

We’ve got 2 directions. Increase the T6 wounds for further saturation or increase our small model threat saturation. Now Raveners fall into an interesting area. Even though they are in fact generally considered a small model threat (i.e. not an MC) I generally consider them more in the T6 saturation category. Why? The weapons used to kill them would also normally be fired at your T6 models. But that’s a bit of a tangent because I’m not going to take a single unit of Raveners for the same reason I won’t take a single Trygon: to easy to isolate and eliminate.

So instead I think I’ll go another direction. I’m going to take the extra points and double another unit instead. I’m going to add 200pts of Genestealers. Which is 14 Genestealers w/4pts left over. So we balance out the units and end up w/this at 1,850:

2xPrime w/Dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2xTervigons w/Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
2x17 Genestealers
2xCarnifex w/Dual Devourers

So now looking at this you’ve got 26 T6 wounds w/a further 6 T5 that’ll count as T6 the majority of the time. So around 32 T6 wounds, all of which should be in cover the majority of the time. Even wolves have a tough time shooting down this many saves especially if FnP is involved.

Added to this you have your scoring/screening core in the Termi/Tervi combo’s. Tough units that can create more units and even gants in numbers are scary. Though I don’t normally spawn until they are needed or if I’m sure my Tervi is about to eat it J

And finally a first turn extreme threat in the form of two large units of Genestealers. If you got first you’ve got a very durable front line pressure unit that allows you to react after your opponent deploys. To instant kill one you have to pull your firepower off the larger units and 4++(Cover)/FnP isn’t easy to get rid of in such large numbers. Basically you’ve built an extreme threat list. Generally turn 1 is moving and running across the board followed by everything in the army contributing on turn 2 as you move into range w/guns and assaults.

As Nids you are required to saturate your opponents shooting options. Make everything something that can’t be ignored. Make it so that your opponent doesn’t have a good option. A few quick things to remember:

-Play Aggressively!
-Use FnP to control your opponents fire priority
-Play Aggressively!!
-Know where you are going from turn 1
-Don’t be afraid to hit in waves. Nids can actually do this, you can grind you enemy down (except for TWC J)
-Layer Properly (the article is coming, I swear!). Don’t be afraid to go to the other side of the table for viewpoints and to discuss possible LoS issues w/your opponent.

Hope that helps but this one has gotten really, really long so I’m gonna end it here.

9 comments:

james said...

So I love the list and commentary just struggling with bringing it up to 2000. can't seem to do much more than adding more to whats there. Raveners? Gargoyles? y-stealer and combining hive guard?

Hulksmash said...

At 2,000 it's a different beast. Currently for close the same feel you can go 2-ways:

Prime w/Dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2xTervigons w/Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
2x18 Genestealers
Carnifex w/Dual Devourers
2xTrygon

or

2xPrime w/Dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2xTervigons w/Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
20 Genestealers
2x5 Raveners w/Rending
2xCarnifex w/Dual Devourers

Both give you the wound and saturation depth as well as more speed. 1,850 is a weird point value for me and it took me a few months to find something I liked at it. 2,000 is much easier :)

Drew said...

Do you run the Raveners across the board or deep strike them in?

Hulksmash said...

Run them. I'm a big fan of controlling as many variables with my Nids as possible.

james said...

Thanks for the quick response. Cant wait to give it a try. You "core of this list" was very close to the core I've had the most fun/success with.
TY again....Gritts

inquisitor_dunn said...

Nice thoughts on how it will work. Sucks we have zero real Nids players down here in my area. I haven't faced a nid army in a long time.

I did see 2 of them at Con of the North in Saint Paul but did not get a chance to face them. Wierd mix of armies there though, I was the 3rd Sister's of Battle army there. I think we outnumbered Space puppies too.

alex said...

Quick questions, because the 1 model rule, can you really stick that IC with 1 Fex?

Hulksmash said...

@alex

Indeed you can. The rule is that an IC can't join a unit that always consist of 1 model. Currently the only MC Squad in the game is the Carnies but since they are 1-3 you can join the Prime to them.

alex said...

@Hulksmash

Thanks for the clear up, buddy. I just started fallowing your blog very recently, so there are a lot of old articles about nids that I have to go through. So far, I'm very impress with what you got.

Keep up the good works and thanks for sharing your experiences.

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