Monday, March 7, 2011

Interesting Discussion on Bugs Part-1


Based on this Article over on Best Overall: http://bestoverall.blogspot.com/2011/03/tyranids-sinsynns-riposte-reposted.html#idc-container

This got me thinking (oh noes!). I've actually in the last 2 tournaments knocked out Mech IG twice, Mech BA's once, SW's once, DE once, and Necrons (which don't count). Not perfectly optimized (though some were close) but a none to shabby record against the "dominant" 40k codexes. I say that because these games and my playing of most of the above codexes has led me to the thoughts that'll make up this series.

First off in regards to the article above I've come to the conclusion that for me the point investment in Tyrano's isn't worth it. Let me explain why though. It's not the actual points they cost. It's the fact that they actually make target priority easier for my opponent and the core to any successful Nid strategy is to truly make target priority a no-win for your opponent.

My heavy supports revolve around Dual Dev Fexes and Trygons. My lists are constantly evolving but the core elements remain the same lately:

Prime w/Dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2xTervigons w/Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
Carnifex w/Dual Devourers

This is the core of almost any army I am building. Now I've been building toward an 1,850 force that works well due to Adepticon but a lot of the ideas I've got running around will work fine with a little supplementing at 2k. Back to the above though. It provides your solid core for your force. You have 3 can-opener units, 1 moderate can-opener which is a nasty exposed unit shooter and doubles as a darn fine CC unit. And you've got your scoring core. It totals 1080.

That total leaves you with plenty of space to tweak to your specific style. It allows you to add your chosen disruption element, your preferred hammer unit, and your personal style of speed. These three things are essential to making a Nid army that works. But these need to be done while also creating a target priority nightmare. It's a very tricky and thin line.

So from here where do we go? I'll cover more in Part-2

7 comments:

Purgatus said...

I'm listening... I do like the Fex stars. Give them spine banks so they can assault into cover going first, and have two such units and I think it's a fine core.

Hulksmash said...

Glad your listening Purg. It was your post that got me thinking about writing down my latest thoughts when I should be building and painting for Adepticon.

Not a huge fan of spine banks. They'd only go first against a powerfist and if I'm charging it's not gonna hit that hard to begin with. Only way to strike simo w/MEQ's is to also add Adrenal Glands to make them I4 on the charge. I'm considering this as it'll also make them St10 which'll help against TWC. But I'll go over that too :)

SinSynn said...

Ah Purg...frag spines, really?

Please, Hulksmash- he won't listen to me.
You've got a blog, maybe he'll listen to you

Funny thing- on my second visit here, I see this. Lol.
I'll be following, and hopefully Purgy will too.

Kirby said...

Nice core; looks familiar =D.

I do love Dakkafexes and what they bring to the table but I think lists that go down the route of minimal to no T-Fexes really need to consider how they are going to disrupt their opponent so their short-ranged shooting can get close (and consider Onslaught). I imagine this will be discussed in part 2.

Something I missed though at Centurion was no Hive Tyrant (took 3x3 Ravs instead). The Tyrant makes the WS3/I1 T-Fex/Tervigon + the Gants that much scarier not to mention being able to fiddle with deployment thanks to Hive Commander.

Purgatus said...

You are missing the combo guys. If you have a fex star with a Prime, with a Lashwhip, the LW is pulling them down to I1, yes? So the Carnifex gets to swing before, well everything.

That's worth 5 points, no?

Hulksmash said...

@Kirby

Indeed, Part 2 should be out later today and it's going to cover adding disruption, hammer, and speed. As well as how to do this while maintaining proper target saturation.

@Purg

I'm not missing the combo. I just don't think the lashwhip is what my army needs in my mini-fexstars. I've played with it. A smart opponent puts the majority of his unit in cc(by 1 model normally) w/the carnifex. Making the Carnifex still hit last no matter what. And I don't believe, though I could be wrong, that the spines allow the Prime to strike at regular Initiative as well so it's doubly pointless.

Mercer said...

Interesting post. I put up a post on I.D recently saying why Tyranids don't suck and most replies was they're not that good. I think a decent Tyranid player can do well and most people underestimate them, here's the post: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2011/03/tactica-tyranids-suck.html

As for your list mins pretty much the same but add another Dakka Fex in a Tyrant with Guard and a Tervigon as HQ along with Genestealers. Mate of mine uses something the same but uses Primes with lash whips, though the whips can be avoided like you said. He also uses Ymgarls which he rates too, expensive but popping up anywhere and assaulting is pretty cool.

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