So I mentioned in my previous post how I would build a flyer army. This is what I’d honestly be looking at:
Destroyer Lord – 145
Septiminal Weave
5 Warriors – 165
Nightscythe
5 Warriors – 165
Nightscythe
5 Warriors – 165
Nightscythe
5 Warriors – 165
Nightscythe
5 Warriors – 165
Nightscythe
5 Wraiths – 175
5 Wraiths – 175
5 Wraiths – 175
Annihilation Barge – 90
Annihilation Barge – 90
Annihilation Barge – 90
Total: 1750
Now for 2k I’d make the following changes:
Remove the Destroyer Lord
Add Lord on foot w/Warscythe and 2+
Add 5 Lychguard w/Night Scythe Transport
Either way the initial portion of the list allows you to start with 15 Wraiths and 3 Barges on the table. That’s enough to scare the hell out of most opponents but then a ridiculous amount of fire power poors out on turn 2/3 to support the units already on the table. Dropping a troop unit or two off to hold objectives and hide as needed. The 2k list I like particularly because of the Lycheguard. Nothing like moving 36” and deploying the squad 6” farther forward, an immediate threat to deal with in the back field. The list is slightly worried about mass st10 templates or stacking enfeeble malidictions but outside of this I think it holds up remarkably well with decent line of sight blocking terrain on the table.
Logging you in...
Neil Gilstrap · 657 weeks ago
The strength of the army is definitely in being to put forward a credible Wraith threat and clear the way on Turn 2 with some good shooting with Tesla Destructors. It's fairly good as an all-comer in play testing, but the bad match-ups for it in play testing are:
- Deathstars are Wraiths, even 15 of them, aren't a match for Paladins or Nob Bikerz. Especially bad for the Nob Bikerz as if you don't get first Turn, they will assault into your Wraiths preventing you from shooting them with Flyers.
- Guard is a problem as well especially when backed up by a solid Deathstar. (Basically, Guard does the same concept as this list but allies in a Deathstar as its major forward threat then uses manticores and vendettas as its back-up shooting). Manticores make Anni Barges go away very quickly and of course Vendettas are a hard counter to Scythes. Other than that, they put their Deathstar and plasma boats into taking down your Wraiths. it's a grind and FUN game, but Guard generally has the advantage with better, cheaper tools (we're used to that as xenos players anyways :P)
- Flying Circus demons are also hit or miss. 15 Wraiths can stand up to the masses of Flamers and such for a little while, but they will be overcome eventually as the 3+ re-rolls are hard to beat, and what makes it worse is that the FMCs get stuck into combats that are VERY protracted. This means your Flyers are moving around really not doing much while the Demon player slowly grinds your Wraiths down. Then, on last turn, he can move into objectives and such.
One of the ways to solve some of those issues (not demons of course) is with Doom Scythes, but they are also hit or miss in playtesting and very expensive. Helps out with Deathstars though as 3 doom scythes can work over Nobz and Paladins and such.
Still, though, you now end up with like 1000 points of non-scoring and non-denial in your list which is very edgy. :)
Just food for though in the play testing I've done with my lists so far!
Hulksmash · 657 weeks ago
As for the counters that's interesting. I wouldn't have though Deathstars would be that large an issue though I guess if they make saves I can see it. But the same could be said for you.
For the flying MC's the trick to that army is to just kill it's troops. Which, with 5-6 flyers & barges, shouldn't be an issue since most of these armies generally only have 20ish infantry models. Unless it's the one KP (sorry, VP) I can't a list with this low of a damage output and so few troops being something to fear. Especially since big bird can't be everywhere.
Neil Gilstrap · 657 weeks ago
And then, if he's built a list that's worth a crap, he's going to either have taken Guard primary / Nobz ally so he can Vendetta your Flyers down or run his own Lootaz and Dakka Jets. This is where you get into trouble is you can't exactly focus the Nob Bikerz like you need to be able to when you have the opportunity to shoot them. This is a FUN game though and is definitely not a doomsday scenario.
Paladins, well, if Nob Bikerz is 4/5 chance paladins have about a 1/4 chance to take a wound per Scythe. So 5 scythes will average 1 wound a turn and Wraiths are a joke compared to Paladins either dying in shooting or assault. The answer, just like anytime you play paladins, is to try and ignore them and go for other units.
This works fine depending on which mission you are playing (especially looking at NoVA missions). Once again, NoVA Quarters highly comps out your Flyers so he just need to target your Wraiths and then you are in trouble. KPs, you'll likely tie down. Objectives is much more competitive as his lone Paladins can only hold one objectives.
FWIW!
Hulksmash · 657 weeks ago
Glad you shared you insight man. Especially since a goof off list I'm thinking of for necrons has 3-4 flyers in it. I know I'm a bastard but I just wanna drop 20 Lychguard and 2 Lords 42" up the table in front of an army.....just seems plain silly and fun!
Neil Gilstrap · 657 weeks ago
Although, for NoVA upcoming, it's tantalizing as well because then at least you have about a 315ish point squad that can drop like a brick into a Quarter to try and give you some points in it.
Brent · 657 weeks ago
Here's to me being dumb today, but what's the comment about the 3+ rerolls refer to?
Hulksmash · 657 weeks ago
Neil Gilstrap · 657 weeks ago
Anyways, you start on the board with your Wraiths + Barges while Scythes go into reserves. After a few practice games, you'll start bubble wrapping your barges with your Wraiths else when he deep strikes in, the Flamers + DPs with Breath will toast your Anni Barges. (No cover from flamers) Else, he BBQs your Wraiths.
IF you have first turn, which you kind of want and kind of don't want, (kind of don't want because you kind of want to be able to drop your troops on objectives/quarters in the late game), you'll get a chance to shoot them now with your Flyers. After that or otherwise, he will assault into your Wraiths as best he can. You are now locked into combat with his re-rolling save DPs for the next like 8-10 rounds combat while he very, painfully, slowly grinds you down. (My co-host has now started taking loads of Boon on his DPs now simply to help them grind down assaults... getting hit with 4-5 Boons a turn SUCKS for Wraiths, Nob Bikerz, Paladins, you get the idea and I highly recommend it).
Meanwhile, you want to kill his troops with your Flyers and any barges that didn't die on the DS. His goal will be to throw his troop choices into the ongoing combat to protect them from shooting. This is where things get tricky for both armies, if you can kill his troop choices or he gets them into assault or out of LoS, you are going to be in trouble.
If you are playing NoVA Open missions, you are definitely in trouble now because when the combat finally ends,ALL of his stuff will score on quarters while your Flyers are now screwed. If Objectives is primary, you just about auto-lose this game now. :) If it's KP or Objectives, you got a solid game going now to try and out move him, kill his troops, and claim objectives.
One strategy I have deduced now having played this game about 15 times now is to actually split your Wraiths up across your deployment. This helps tremendously because then he can't be in a big multi-assault, and big bird can only be near one squad. Then, run from him. This opens you up for more shooting. I haven't actually tried this theory yet because I just deduced it last game. Will let you know. :)
Hulksmash · 657 weeks ago
Make that bastard pick a single squad. With the rest of the units spread out he won't be able to hide his troops in CC and boom, they dead.
Neil Gilstrap · 657 weeks ago