Thursday, August 23, 2012

Logan – Friend to the Little People



As most of you might have guessed I have a wee-bit of a crush on Logan. He’s just an all-star! That being said I recently went all in on a plastic daemon army that I’m going to be slowly painting up. But while I’m painting that up I have my Iron Warriors that I started and those need paint and I truly love all the conversion opportunities I’ve got in that army. And since Iron Warriors still hold the record for longest hold on my attention span in a row (1.5 years with no interruptions!!!!!) and there is a new codex coming I’ve gotten even more excited.


Well that Daemon army in plastic pretty much made my Admech Daemon army kinda superfluous. So I was thinking of transitioning them into allies for my Iron Warriors.  That being said the flamers, fiends, and screamers are pretty easy. I can just add some chaotic bits on them and start the repaint. My horrors are also pretty easy but I got to thinking that an IG ally with special rules how they are might not be a bad idea.

And since I’ve been moving my iron warriors towards being my every army due to modeling fun I got to thinking about Logan.

If you’re still with me after my tangent it’ll now be a bit more clear. I’m considering running my Iron Warriors as Space Wovles, at least until the new book comes out. That being said I started looking at Logan leading a blob squad. Now his FAQ states he gives his ability to himself and any space wolf unit he’s attached to one of several special rules. But the brb states that some special rules are transferred to a unit if a single model has them. So Logan gives the ability only to himself in a squad that’s not SW but transfers certain abilities per the brb to the squad he’s with. The only one he doesn’t transfer is relentless which, while a little sad, isn’t a huge deal when you talking about stubborn, fearless, tank hunting, or preferred enemy.

I started looking at my list that I was running for my Loganwing toward the end of 5th. It looked pretty much like this:

Logan
2xLone Wolves in TA w/CF
4x5 WG w/Stormbolter, Cyclone, CF
7 WG in TA w/WC’s, 2 Chainfists, 2 Cyclones, and some combi-plasma
3x5 Long Fangs w/4 Missiles and attach WG

This list would tag at 1850 and could be played with to get it to 2k if needed. But looking at this and the rules for 6th I started to think about what they big WG squad was providing. That squad costs 415pts. It’s a solid squad for sure but I started to look at Logan rules and suddenly I thought of IG. Yes, I have to pay for a command squad to get access to a platoon but let’s start by taking a look at the platoon:

Infantry Squad – 85
Power Axe, Auto-Cannon, Plasma Gun

So 5 of these are 425. Now you do have to add in a CCS and PCS so that’s an additional 80pts. 30 of those points go to the PCS which for me is the unit you tuck behind a building and hold an objective similar to grots. The CCS, while more costly, combined with Logan leading a squad is absolutely ridiculous. Don’t like a vehicle? Re-roll to hit and to pen with Bring it Down and Logan’s tank hunters. Want to keep from barbequing yourself with plasma? I hear Preferred Enemy isn’t so bad. Combine that with FRFSRF and it’s even more gross. Logan is stubborn LD10 with a re-roll so you won’t have to use fearless often. The squad can afford to lose 30 models before it starts to take casualties that matter. And it has 5 sergeants attacking with 15 St4 power weapons without the charge. That’s pretty darned impressive.

Granted all 5 squads would probably only be welcome at 2k since they wouldn’t quite fit at 1,850 without dropping something extremely useful. But at 2k you could even add Krak Grenades to make any vehicle army fear the wrath of the IG charging wall.

Is it a deathstar and a gimmick? I’m not so sure. What you have here is a unit that can stand toe to toe with most “deathstars” like Nobs w/Biker Boss, Draigo & Paladins, Various Terminator Deathstars, TWC squads led by Lords, and pretty much everything else. This is a unit that can take an obscene amount of wounds before starting to lose its shooting viability and since it’s CC is pretty much reliant on Logan and 5 sergeants (anything else in the squad that kills something is a bonus) it takes even longer for it to start to lose it CC viability.

You can use this squad to pick off flyers/vehicle on the move, it puts out insane numbers of shots with PE and FRFSRF. It let’s go of 5 St7 AP2 and 10 St7 AP4 shots at 24” and even more plasma close up. And even better, if you don’t need a giant sponge/counter deathstar unit it can break up into smaller squads to provide supporting fire for advancing SW’s. Basically it’s a massive utility unit.

This unit is in comparison to 16 Bolter & 4 Krak Missile shots at range and 10 st4 re-roll to wound pw attacks and 4 chainfist attacks in CC. Granted the Terminators have amazingly higher survivability outside of AP2.

So what do you guys think? How would you handle a unit like this? Can your army built as it handle something like this?

As a sidenote Chaos should be Battle Brothers with IG. It’s a little stupid that they aren’t fluff and gaming wise….oh well J

Comments (15)

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From Mike Brandt:

While the unit is good, I'd argue your loadout isn't quite. First, primaris psyker instead of ccs. Twenty points more, and highly useful. Two rolls on biomancy also gives you a better than 50% to pick up enfeeble or endurance, both huge powers for that platoon (hello, frfsrf + pguns + acans + ... Relentless fnp? Yes!). Meltabombs on sarges are a better investment at 25 total points than krak at 50, imo, especially vs monsters. Not sure I really like plasmaguns, if only due to the 75 point price tag.
8 replies · active 657 weeks ago
I respectfully disagree on several issues. The first is the psyker instead of the ccs. Enfeeble, or endurance would be good for the squad but the chances aren't high nor are they consistant. And I tend to find the CCS more useful in it's abilities to give orders like bring it down, or get back in the fight.

Melta bombs on sergeants for 25 points isn't nearly as nice as krak for 50 especially when talking about MC's. 5 St8 AP1 attacks vs. 15 St4 PW attack and 35 St6 attacks isn't even a contest. Let alone for ripping multiple vehicles apart.

Oh, and Relentless doesn't transfer to the unit. It's Logans one ability that doesn't go from him to the unit. As for plasma it gets much better when you consider you're extremely unlikely to kill yourself between preferred enemy or bring it down. Also at St7 it's helpful for taking out flyers and again stripping HP's off vehicles.
Can you run the squad more naked? Sure. Do I think it would be as much of a threat? Nope, not even in the ballpark. Especially when it slots in so nicely vs. the Terminator squad that used to be there.
Endurance grants relentless, hence the point of that comparison.

A 50 point CCS doesn't actually do ... well, anything really; you can give orders with it, sure, but it's even more investment in a unit that DOES have counters.

Been using the guard blob in games vs. the local heroes since 6drop, and these are simply my thoughts on the subject. Your guardsmen will die, in droves, so having 5 S8 AP1 attacks that can be buffed by various things (i.e. rr to hit, if you want to use a rune priest instead of the krakk diff and plas, for instance) on the models that will die last tends to be more valuable than the actual number of kraks you'll have come combat time (way, way, way less than 35).
Oh and PS - you're talking about roughly 95 points / squad

50 - Guardsmen
10 - PW
10 - Kraks
10 - Autocan
15 - Plasmagun

9 guard models at T3 and 5+ saves in a less cover-intensive edition is a really risky investment at 95 points each.
Ah, on endurance I missed that and stand corrected. As for the Krak it's not something that was a definite. It was more of something that could be added based on the rest of your list.

As for the Primaris vs. the CCS I'll give it a go. I'm not 100% on the CCS but I do love the re-roll to hit vehicles combined with logan's re-roll to pen. Also it gives me two units that can FRFSRF for when the first gets pasted by smart opponents. The joy of the unit with Logan is it's extremely versatile but the rest of the SW list consists of solid units on it's own.
I'm with you - my thoughts having played a huge # of the blob variations, is that the unit put together is a very POOR investment for purposes of shooting things like vehicles; you have literally tons of guard and wolf options that do it better for less, vs. flyers and/or vs. ground.

The unit is an anti-infantry, scoring, board control unit ... and understandably so - investing 650+ points (counting Logan) to kill at most one vehicle a turn is a ridiculous investment. BUT investing that to basically say "MINE" at midfield and force intense fire your way, and still be able to hide survivors that at half strength have strong value ... well, that's cool.

But they also do that largely just as well with simply 65 point meltabomb/power axe squads, and 45 lasguns frfsrf, plus the occasional badass psyker buff. Give yourself a rune priest with some of the savings, and the unit is ALWAYS re-rolling to hit, plus you have a Runic Weapon to shut down some of hte crazy psyker shenanigans starting to pop up.
I probably wasn't clear. The blob functions the same way my Wolfguard Termie unit did through 5th. That unit was also a ridiculous waste of points for killing 1 vehicle a turn but just like this it's a control unit.

The krak grenades are for people who feel they might be needed but aren't my on the build.

I think we're looking at this from two different directions. You're looking at it from a guard players perspective while I'm coming from a SW perspective. In a IG army you have lots of other shots as well things like Vendettas for air superiority. So a blob that just FRFSRF and has power weapons works. In a SW army you don't have the high rate of fire needed to drop flyers and their missile spam's taken a hit due to needing a 6 to kill tanks.

That being the case the additional points spent on heavy weapons and things like plasma increase the units viability inside the list greatly. You can't ignore the unit as it can rip entire squads apart or vehicles (read, non-transports) on each turn.
And the unit with Logan is closer to 770 before you add in the command unit needed to field the ally.

But, and it's a pretty solid but, this unit gives flexibility to a loganwing list in that against an army without a death star or a massive amount of flyers ( where killing one a turn becomes important) you can still use a combined unit of 3 squads while shifting the other two into support roles so the rest of the army can advance.

But like I said, I think we're looking at it from two different perspectives.
Well, blogger is certainly being fun this morning.....
Saying you can lose 30 models before anyone important is somewhat simplistic since your opponent has a lot of say in which guys die.
3 replies · active 657 weeks ago
Not really. Proper placement will ensure this to be the case. The trick is also to put logan on the thinnest side to ensure that he distributes the wounds in case firepower breaks through. It takes some practice but it's not enourmously hard to do. Especially early in the game.
Barrage weapons, Deep Strikers, Outflankers, etc.. It's not possible to have 30 guys in the way from every direction.
::sigh::

You don't need 30 models in the way in any given direction. You play angles. You limit incoming shots to areas where it's thin. This is not the only unit on the table. If people are directing an increbile amount of firepower (which is what it will take) then they are still eating 20 Missile launchers per turn and ignoring the Lone Wolves tearing down their throats.

It's not a single unit against an army. I'd also add that extensive outflank/deepstrike and barrage weapons are extremely rare.

Will you occassionaly lose a useful model? Sure, it's bound to happen in a large squad but your oversimplifying how easy something like this is to move. Give it a shot or don't. I'm simply pointing out something that helps my Loganwing transition from 5th to 6th.
As an IG blob player I thought I should point out that guardsman die in droves with concentrated fire power. Almost any weapon is AP5 and cover is nowhere near as good as it was compared to 5th (from blob perspective). That being said, it can still work perfectly fine. If your opponent wants to put most of their shots into S3T3 models than you still have wolves in the back to say hi. If they ignore the blob... bad things happen. Templates will hurt, but not enough in the one turn they will have to kill off the blob. Good luck

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