Thursday, July 5, 2012

Speeding Up Lookout Sir & Wound Allocation on Character units?


So I think a lot of people are misunderstanding how these mechanics work and are making this into a bigger issue than it actually is.

Here is what I’m thinking as I’m pretty sure I understand the mechanics behind how Lookout Sir and wound allocation work. And from what I can tell it’s no slower and might be faster than wound allocation in 5th. Now this is just an idea and if I’ve got a mechanic wrong or it doesn’t make sense let me know. I was a little wrong in how I initially interpreted it but with some help from the guys at the YMDC over on Dakka we think we've worked out a way to speed this process up (and so massively speed up the game)

We’ll start with the example units and then go through it step by step, the initial number of wounds is just a number, and this will work for Shooting:

Unit 1 – 10 Warpspiders

Unit 2 – 10 Nob Bikerz

Step 1 – Warp Spiders fire on the Nob Bikers, causing 11 wounds.

Step 2 – If they all have the same save (and they should) then roll your saves and FnP’s. Let’s say 5 wounds go thru

Now in a normal unit you would just allocate from closest to farthest. But since this is a unit of characters with 2 wounds each to increase your survivability this is how you would do it quickly and easily. Those 5 shots would kill 2 nobz if left unallocated and wound a third. So instead what you do is:

Step 3 – Roll all 5 "Lookout Sir" dice together. Allocate the ones you pass as you see fit within 6" and start removing casualties from the front. So say 2 passed and 3 failed. The front model would be removed, the second closest model would be wounded, and you would allocate the remaining 2 wounds as you saw fit within 6" of the initial model.
The great thing is that this can all be done with 3 dice rolls instead of a bazillion individual ones.
You can do this more efficiently with an IC in the front of the unit. Especially if they all have the same save.  If they have a different save you have to allocate before rolling any saves but if he’s got the same save as the members of his squad you still get to take the saves first and then get to allocate on a 2+.

For Close Combat you do the same thing except that your opponent must nominate the order in which his models will die. This is so you can again roll just 3 sets of dice (maybe slighly more depending on the number of wounds on the models in the unit) instead of rolling one at a time on character units.

If you have a character in the combat with a different armor save but don't want to allocate to him first (since then you have to roll until everything is saved, Lookout Sir'd, or he's dead) this is how you could speed up the dice rolling.

X=Nobz - 6+
W=Warboss - 5+
E=Enemy

XXXX
XXWXX
EEEE

So the front 5 models are in b2b in a nob squad. The E's inflict 20 wounds (all at the same initiative). This is how I would proceed (assuming this time I'm the ork player being attacked).

I would nominate my regular nobs in the order I'll choose them to die. So there are 8 possible wounds there. I would roll 8 saves and then 8 fnp and then 8 Lookout Sir's. I would distribute as noted earlier, count how many wounds were left before wounds would get to the IC, and roll that number as a group. Repeat until the wound pool is empty or you have to roll for the warboss because the other 4 guys are completely dead.


Or if you wanted to take them on your warlord (IC) you could roll 3 LOS at a time until you hit 16 (or you are dead from failed LOS and Armor saves) and then the armor saves & fnp's on the nobs (since they only have 16 wounds between them) and distribute the wounds across them as appropriate. Do this until all 20 wounds have been accounted for.

I’m 99% sure I’m reading and interpreting this correctly and if I am it’s not going to make wound allocation to complicated outside of a single 2+ save 1 wound model being the squad leader and being the closest model which will cause you to roll one dice at a time.

On units with mixed armor saves it's a bit more complicated but the above should work in lots that number the initial amount of same armor types. Unless you're taking them all at first on the highest armor save then you have to roll based on his number of wounds till they are dead. So Pally units will still be a pain in CC if all your wounds are AP2 and he has swords, staves, and standard saves. But overall I think this could really speed up what most people are seeing as the biggest time stumbling block for 6th.

Let me know what you guys think. It might not even be a bad example for packets in events you run so people understand how it works since so many people seem to be reading it incorrectly (possibly including myself!). It'll also be a good thing because I think we are going see a massive upsurge in these types of units. And it applies to characters leading squads of multiwound models in CC as well like TWC Lords w/TWC, Khorne Jugger Heralds w/Bloodcrushers, Commisars w/Ogryns, Primes w/Warriors or Fexes, DE Characters w/Grotesques, and Destroyer Lords w/Wraiths. It's a pretty long list :)


Comments (25)

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Eric Said:

Based on my reading of the rules this seems too be an accurate interpretation and a good way of speeding things up a bit. Nice write up!
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
Sorry, sometimes when people post from phones it breaks disquis so I deleted and reposted your comment under this system :)
Yeah, your breakdown mirrors basically what I got from reading the rulebook. We played a couple games last night this same way and it didn't seem to slow down the game more than you would expect, what with it being our first games with a new system.
Nice write-up, Hulk! I really hope this can go as quickly as you lay out... otherwise it'll be a huge timesink. The onus is primarily on the player fielding the unit to know how to allocate / LOS it, though, right? I don't want to figure out people's save/LOS shenanigans for them!
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
It should be RiTides but this will help you to speed your opponents up if your familiar with the system as well. That way there won't be any missed time and, though I don't see it happen often, will help you have a tool for people who are playing the clock.

All in all it should be considerably faster actually than 5th editions wound allocation that used to take place. Since now you don't have to; distribute the wounds, roll each model seperately (and roll twice if you had FnP and failed the first one), and mark as needed.
“Sean Wrote”

Youre close. However look out sir comes before saves. So I think if your nobs took 11 wounds or whatever the example was you roll your 11 look out sirs or however many you are hoping to move since obviously passed look out sits couldn't then be allocated to that closest model. Then you spread them out to your nobs how you want and start rOlling saves. Takes slightly longer then perhaps your example but is the proper order. Since u don't know how many saves you will fail it stays with the proper intentions of the new allocation rules I think. If you do it after failed rolls then it is too perfectly game able on multi wound units.
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
Actually Look Out Sir only comes before saves if you have differing armor saves. It's to allocate a wound or unsaved wound. The shooting rules make it clear how fast rolling is supposed to work with similar armor saves. if you have a different armor save model at the front of the unit then you have to choose lookout sir before the saving throws per the mixed save rule.
“Deathbringer Wrote”

No unfortunately you are both right. As the rules are currently written for look out sir you can check before or after. Its kind of annoying actually
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
Not quite, see my above answer. :)
I like this and I think you nailed it! Thanks for posting this, Hulk, this really will speed it up quite a bit.
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
I was hoping so. I was in the same boat as most people when I read the rules initially. Like nearly wanted to cry for how long it seemed like it would take. So with this though you'll find most of the two wound character units (5th edition wound allocated units) will go way faster. And the normal shooting allocation will speed up wound allocation from 5th in general as long as everyone has the same armor :)
Hey, Thanks for the post. you've put that on a 2+ you get to allocate (and ive seen on another blog 2+) but isn't los 4+? or have i misunderstood something?
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
The 2+ is for Indepedent Characters. On regular characters (i.e. squad leaders, paladins, and nobz) it's a 4+.
It would have been nice if there had been some limit on LOS rolls to control the madness, but you've seem to come up with a pretty fast solution. I imagine we'll be cruising through like this fairly soon once it's more expected. It's too bad they didn't "fix" wound allocation, just created different problems.
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
I don't know. I feel like they did fix it pretty well. It's less individual rolls and your twice as likely to down models since they'll only make 50% of their LOS. So it's actually quite a bit better. Which it needed to be since they made them pretty much unkillable below St10....
I thought there was a rule about placing wounds on already wounded models. How does that affect your short cut.
The rule is that once wounds are allocated to a multi-wound model it must die before you can move on. But the LOS wounds aren't part of that. They are put out after wounds are being shifted from the allocated model. Which is why you still remove the closest models first on the non-successful LOS rolls.
4 replies · active 664 weeks ago
Can you prove the exact wording for the rules since as you paraphrased it could lead to really funky stuff.
I ask because as you phrased the rule it does not seem like it would come up very often since the model which got allocated the wound is the closest model and will be until it is dead. Or is it just a CC rule mainly. I could see if you hit a multiple wound model unit with a barrage and shots from the same unit (lasguns plus mortar) resolved the barrage first on its nearest models measured from blast marker center. Then you you applied the lasguns you would first kill any surviving models which had a wound from the barrage even if they were not the closest.

Does this affect carry over from turn to turn or can you rotate the closest model ( sacrificing some move distance) to rotate the damage around non character multiple wound units.
Pg. 25, In the Assault Phase

"Once a model has a wound alloated to it, you must continue to allocate wounds to it until it is either removed as a casaulty or the wound pool is empty."

This rule is in place for combat because you're likely to have multiple models equal distance from the unit inflicting the wounds so an addedum needed to be added to how allocation works for shooting.

In shooting there is not if allocated it must take wounds till it's removed rule because shooting is all about how close you are to the opponent so you can't allocate to a different model till the closest is dead (except by using LoS).
In that condition the only problem I see for your method for shooting is if the 6 inch range matters in who you want to allocate the wounds to. If you have 5 wounds then for it to be totally unimportant what the order of the rolls was you need all the other guys who will get wounds must be within 6 inch of the first 3 closest models to the firing units. For example, if you fail the first 2 rolls so the closest guy dies then all the other LOS wounds would be placable within 6 inches of the second guy. But if he passes the first 3 and fails the last two then the wounds must be within 6 inches of the first guy.

I could see this mattering in conga line or horseshoe type model placements.
I'm definitely printing this and bringing it to the club! Thanks, Hulk!
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
Awesome, glad I could help :)
spaguatyrine's avatar

spaguatyrine · 664 weeks ago

This is also for invol saves. It does say "saving throws". So low ap weapons mixed with highter ones will still slow this down, but this is great!
Brilliant write up. Never been to this blog before, will definitely be coming back.

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